Newbie: Is this 2016 Leaf SV worth it?

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Dfwtx

New member
Joined
May 1, 2019
Messages
4
Location
Dallas, TX
Hi all - Getting my wife a Nissan Leaf and looking at 2016s with the 107 mile range capacity.

Roughly 37k miles; 10 capacity bars; $14k otd; TX here.

I’m concerned about the 10 capacity bars. How much range can you get out of 10?

Thanks for any advice.
 
Dfwtx said:
Hi all - Getting my wife a Nissan Leaf and looking at 2016s with the 107 mile range capacity.

Roughly 37k miles; 10 capacity bars; $14k otd; TX here.

I’m concerned about the 10 capacity bars. How much range can you get out of 10?

Thanks for any advice.

There is an issue with 30kwh Leafs. Nissan claims to have solved a "BMS programming error" with a software update, but it doesn't always restore lost capacity. There are also more defects than expected in the early build 2016 packs, often resulting in bad cells. So, you want to do two things: check the build date on the driver's side door sill sticker. If it's before late Winter of 2016 (this is a guess) and definitely if it's before 2016, you should pass on the car. You also want to find out if it's had the aforementioned BMS update. If it has, pass on it. If not, there is a decent but not certain chance that the update will restore the lost ("misreported") range. You may instead want to focus on late 2016 and on 2017 cars...
 
Thanks for your advice didn’t know about the issues with the early builds. Definitely want to have as much range available as possible without worrying about the battery. The car was built 12/15 so it looks like it will only get worse.

I’ll keep a look out for late 2016/2017. 2018 are a little out of our price range.
 
Dfwtx said:
Thanks for your advice didn’t know about the issues with the early builds. Definitely want to have as much range available as possible without worrying about the battery. The car was built 12/15 so it looks like it will only get worse.

I’ll keep a look out for late 2016/2017. 2018 are a little out of our price range.

I just want you to understand that these are two different issues. The early builds are more likely to develop cell failures. One of those could get you a new battery - or not. (It might well never happen, both because cell failures still happen in only a few cars, and because Nissan has the option - largely un-exercised so far except for a few cell replacements - to both replace cells instead of whole batteries, and to use "refurbished" cells.)

The BMS (battery management system) issue is about bars lost early, and whether or not the problem for a given car is the aforementioned BMS glitch, genuine degradation, or some combination of both. The 2017 cars are also affected by this. The best case scenario is you either get a car with range just about fully restored by the free update, or a new battery from a cell failure. The worst case is you getting stuck with a car with a poor battery.
 
Dfwtx said:
Thanks for your advice didn’t know about the issues with the early builds. Definitely want to have as much range available as possible without worrying about the battery. The car was built 12/15 so it looks like it will only get worse.

I’ll keep a look out for late 2016/2017. 2018 are a little out of our price range.

In Texas you really should not be looking at buying a Leaf. No liquid thermal management system! Buy an EV that has liquid cooling, especially in Texas. Just curious how many miles she needs to go and how many are freeway. Charging at work available?
 
https://insideevs.com/news/338528/update-nissan-has-software-fix-for-2016-17-leaf-30-kwh-battery-reporting-issues/ is the update being referred to.

Prior to the update being released we had an insane # of 4 bar losers on 30 kWh Leafs. There were at least few more past http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=525968#p525968. Pre-update, it was as if the 30 kWh packs were as bad as the chemistry in pre-4/2013 Leafs or even worse.

I've essentially tossed that list and will start a new one in that thread for 4-bar losers POST update.
Evoforce said:
In Texas you really should not be looking at buying a Leaf. No liquid thermal management system! Buy an EV that has liquid cooling, especially in Texas. Just curious how many miles she needs to go and how many are freeway. Charging at work available?
Agreed.

This is why I always ask this:
Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

What are your daily driving needs in terms of miles? How much city vs. highway? Will you have the ability to charge at your work/destinations?

And, in TX, I hear there drive pretty fast. How fast would the freeway driving be (if any)?
 
LeftieBiker said:
Are we even sure that the first post is mentioning Texas?
Not positive... would be nice if the location field were required.

But, they did say "TX here" and their handle is Dfwtx. DFW sounds like Dallas Fort Worth to me.

Hope the OP clarifies and answers the questions I asked.
 
I updated my location in my profile. Yes I’m based in Dallas (unfortunately :D)

She will drive about 20 miles for her daily commute and roughly another 10-20 miles for random errands throughout the day.
Roughly 50/50 highway city driving. AC will be used. Her dad used to have a leaf, before it got totaled, so she is familiar with the range limitations and charging. Speed would be 65-70 on the highway.
We just got rid of an old Q5 because a big repair bill came through so that’s why we are looking for a cheap errand car.

If I’m reading correctly, the BMS update may fix the capacity bar but no guarantee.
 
Dfwtx said:
If I’m reading correctly, the BMS update may fix the capacity bar but no guarantee.

Yes, the BMS update should make the battery health reporting more accurate. Without that, you can't tell much about the true state of the battery (the errors made it look worse than it was). With the update, then you can determine the true health of the battery. As mentioned, early 30kWh batteries had some issues, later ones seem better.

Otherwise, $14k for a (12 bar) 30kWh Leaf would be a fair deal here in CO. Prices vary a lot by region due to util rebates and tax credits
 
Yes, the BMS update should make the battery health reporting more accurate.

This is Nissan's claim, anyway. I'm not calling them liars, but I'd prefer to see more real world data before concluding that the BMS is actually more accurately reporting data after the update...
 
On a sample of one I'd say it worked for me. I was down to 92% SOH before the update (at 8 months post-purchase, now 96% SOH at 21 months) and I still haven't noticed any range loss. I think I could detect ~8% range loss but haven't although this is all sort of seat-of-pants stuff since I don't have a rigorous method for comparison.
 
goldbrick said:
On a sample of one I'd say it worked for me. I was down to 92% SOH before the update (at 8 months post-purchase, now 96% SOH at 21 months) and I still haven't noticed any range loss. I think I could detect ~8% range loss but haven't although this is all sort of seat-of-pants stuff since I don't have a rigorous method for comparison.

I don't doubt that the update is working well for some cars. It just seems to be doing little lasting good for others...
 
For clarification, does the car charge backup to the 107 mile range regardless of how many capacity bars are left? Or does it go down accordingly?
 
Dfwtx said:
For clarification, does the car charge backup to the 107 mile range regardless of how many capacity bars are left? Or does it go down accordingly?

The "Guess O Meter" as we call it, doesn't estimate the EPA range except by coincidence. It uses the last few minutes of driving, so isn't very precise. If you drive a regular route, then you will get lower and lower estimates (whatever they are) as the capacity drops.
 
Dfwtx said:
For clarification, does the car charge backup to the 107 mile range regardless of how many capacity bars are left? Or does it go down accordingly?

As Leftie says, the GOM is really useless. When you lose capacity (and corresponding bars) you also lose capacity. So if the real-life range was 100 miles at 100% capacity and there are 2 lost bars and the battery is at 80% capacity (state of health, aka SOH), the real-life range will be 80 miles. The GOM may indicate something completely different and should just be ignored.

The state of charge (SOC) shows the % of the available capacity. Using round numbers of 100% SOH = 100 miles (not exactly right....)

brand new battery --> SOH = 100% and SOC = 100% --> real-life range = 100 miles
2 bars lost --> SOH = 80% and SOC = 100% --> real-life range = 80 miles
 
When I had a 2017 SV, I always used a trick to get an accurate highway range estimate from the Guess-O-Meter. If you turn on cruise control the range is calculated using your current speed, as opposed to an overly optimistic estimate that assumes more city driving. This looks like a sudden drop in range when you engage cruise control, but on long trips (300-500 miles in a day) I found I could actually rely on that range and make it to my next charging stop. If you have a chance, I'd recommend taking any used Leaf you are test driving out on the highway and checking the range estimate with cruise control set to, say, 65 mph. That should give you a good point of comparison between different used Leafs.

They changed the way the range is calculated for the GOM in the 2018+ models, so I no longer find that necessary.
 
^that's a great tip! You should post that in the 'tips and tricks' thread or maybe 'what you need to know before buying a used leaf' thread.
 
Astros said:
When I had a 2017 SV, I always used a trick to get an accurate highway range estimate from the Guess-O-Meter. If you turn on cruise control the range is calculated using your current speed, as opposed to an overly optimistic estimate that assumes more city driving. This looks like a sudden drop in range when you engage cruise control, but on long trips (300-500 miles in a day) I found I could actually rely on that range and make it to my next charging stop. If you have a chance, I'd recommend taking any used Leaf you are test driving out on the highway and checking the range estimate with cruise control set to, say, 65 mph. That should give you a good point of comparison between different used Leafs.

They changed the way the range is calculated for the GOM in the 2018+ models, so I no longer find that necessary.
If you can get an accurate fuel consumption and SoC drop from a short round trip test then fine; otherwise charge up the car and go for a 60 - 80 mile r/t test at 65 mph on the highway.
 
The SV and SL also have a second, more accurate range estimator as noted in Tips & Tricks. Push the Energy button on the Gen I steering wheel, and the Nav screen displays two concentric highlights circles over a map. The INNER smaller circle is usually accurate. The outer one is the same estimate as the GOM. Good tip about using CC though - I'll add it.
 
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