1200 Mile Trip in the 2018 LEAF

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OrientExpress said:
No I’m answering your questions despite your ignorance of the topic.
With non-answers.

I'll ask again:
Why are tax credits not included ?
Why are fuel savings not included ?
 
SageBrush said:
OrientExpress said:
No I’m answering your questions despite your ignorance of the topic.
With non-answers.

I'll ask again:
Why are tax credits not included ?
Why are fuel savings not included ?

Ok my clueless friend, tax credits are not included because they are a temporary entitlement, and fuel savings are irrelevant to this measure’s definition.
 
OrientExpress said:
SageBrush said:
OrientExpress said:
No I’m answering your questions despite your ignorance of the topic.
With non-answers.

I'll ask again:
Why are tax credits not included ?
Why are fuel savings not included ?

Ok my clueless friend, tax credits are not included because they are a temporary entitlement, and fuel savings are irrelevant to this measure’s definition.

Friend ? No
Clueless ? Irony

How many Americans would have bought a LEAF without those entitlements ?
2, your defense of not including fuel savings is circular. Good job !

Face it, OE:
You are stuck trying to defend a ~ 35 kW 'fast charging' LEAF that wilts outside of the PNW or similar climates. The best you can think of is to paint all EVs as if they are Nissan crap.

Who do you think you are fooling ?
 
My Kia gets 26-7 miles per gallon at 55 and 12-14 at 80mph. 20 gallon tank. 250 miles. I drive across Nebraska in Summer, so I have the test data. City miles per gallon is also only 12-14 miles per gallon. Modern engine and all.
 
OrientExpress said:
I have a nine year old GTI that routinely gets 425-450 miles to a tank, so it’s not unreasonable to demand a BEV to do the same.

It would be fairly easy/cheap to redesign ICE to get 900 miles on a fuel tank that was twice as large. Almost no one is interested. Except for some pickup owners. Who are likely some of the last to be interested in a BEV.

https://titanfueltanks.com/products/xxl-replacement-tanks

BEV acceptance is doubling every 3 years or so. EVs don't need mainstream acceptance anytime soon, just keep the growth rate. How do we get to 4% BEV acceptance? Then 8%?
 
OrientExpress said:
"Very balanced article. The writer is obviously an EV advocate and LEAF fan but she does not gloss over the limitations that come with tripping an EV without a TMS.

The only issue here is that the situation that the author dwells on and makes the central thesis of the article (Slow than desired charging) is essentially limited to less than a thousand LEAFs in the US, and of that universe there is probably less than 10% that would ever be in this situation.

The other issue that I see is the obsessive dwelling on battery temperature on the 2018 cars. The arguments are based on assumptions from earlier versions of the LEAF regarding the 18s LEAF battery durability and its normal operating temperature. A quick scan of the owners manual would clear that up.

The real story is that long-distance travel for any BEV, TMS or non-TMS equipped, is still just like road trips from the 1950s and 60s. Road trips from that era and for modern BEVs is slow and full of surprises.

If you don't have the discipline and patience that is required for the pitfalls of this sort long distance travel in a BEV, then stop whining about it. This same story has been repeated ad nauseam by Tesla, BMW, Kia, Bolt owners since BEVs started their resurgence this decade. It's always the vehicles fault that the trip is a real pain.

Having poor judgement, being impatient and not taking responsibility for one's actions is not a vehicle defect.
I have to disagree that BEV travel is like road trips from the 50s. I now have a Tesla model 3 and after 11,000 miles I find it a modern highway cruiser. The battery easily outlasts my bladder and the Tesla Superchargers have not let me down.
 
OrientExpress said:
Thanks for your observations. Many of your fellow Tesla Drivers do not share them, but some do.
Is 1% of Tesla Model 3 owners "many" ?
Is 99% of owners "some" ?

"many" Americans have a list of ICE vehicles they do not consider road trip worthy.

You are posting FUD with a big side dish of BS.
 
Here we have again reached the debate on how many angels can dance on the head of a pin....

I have read all your posts, and propose this as a healthy medium...

The trip this brave person took was an adventure, and a testament to her sense exploration, trusting in her own strength and wits, and having an experience to always remember... Don't take that away from her. I wish that I could have also gone along for the trip to see all that natural beauty..

As for all the other arguing, I propose that a VERY WELL ACCEPTED EV would include the following.

250-300 mile range - (The Leaf E+ is almost there....)
70 mile normal cruising range - (Not max speed, but "normal" highest driving speed)
Quick charging stations in all gas stations, hotels, sit-down restaurants, malls, town halls, churches, rest stops, and highway exits.
1 hour to charge from 20%-100%

PS - all of this above is irrelevant because these specs would only be for interstate traveling... Which most people only do a few times per year, if that much.. I would not expect an EV to be like the above, especially for under $30K.

I am completely happy with the specs of the Chevy Bolt, and a future Leaf E++ (250 miles range)
and charging as it is today - With my home Level II charger.
That is a good car for most people, even if it is their only car..
 
jbuntz said:
The battery easily outlasts my bladder and the Tesla Superchargers have not let me down.

As a non-Tesla owner, I was wondering... do the supercharger stations all have restrooms or food nearby? As a family, we frequently drive cross country (900 miles), so while the supercharger rate is fast, the ability to eat or use the restroom while charging is essential. How do you handle that?

Also, how many hotels do you see with adequate L2 charging? We typically take one stop along the way, which means that charging overnight at the hotel would be key.
 
Lothsahn said:
As a non-Tesla owner, I was wondering... do the supercharger stations all have restrooms or food nearby? As a family, we frequently drive cross country (900 miles), so while the supercharger rate is fast, the ability to eat or use the restroom while charging is essential. How do you handle that?
Generally (at least my experience with 50+ SuC locations across the NorthEast), SuC do not have their own facilities, but are are located near restrooms and other facilities. The restrooms might be anywhere from a 1-5 minute walk away. It really varies from SuC location to location.

The in-car nav does a great job of telling you where to go and how long to stop. It also lists all the amenities nearby the SuC. This same data is available on Tesla's website (for example).

According to TeslaFi, my average SuC stop is 25 minutes in my S (which has a slower max SuC charge rate of 99kW because of the smaller battery). When we are on a trip, we usually spend the first 10 or so minutes of a stop using the restroom. We then usually walk until the car tells us it has enough range to continue our trip. We rarely have enough time to stop and eat; maybe max of once per trip and maybe only on about half the trips. We're cheap, so we usually bring sandwiches with us and eat at a picnic table.

Lothsahn said:
Also, how many hotels do you see with adequate L2 charging? We typically take one stop along the way, which means that charging overnight at the hotel would be key.
For this we usually use PlugShare, since that has a superset of all the data.
 
OrientExpress said:
Thanks for your observations. Many of your fellow Tesla Drivers do not share them, but some do.

Here is an example of how a BEV road trip should be.


https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads/just-returned-from-a-3-week-roadtrip-in-all-types-of-conditions.151408/
 
jbuntz said:
Here is an example of how a BEV road trip should be.

I've done that trip like this one many times over the years, almost all interstates, set the cruise control and watch the scenery fly by. I find it interesting that today the definition of a road trip is just that, driving the Interstate system.

You won't find many BEV road trip stories that use state, or US business route highways and secondary roads to take a classic road trip, simply because it really isn't for the faint of heart.

A real road trip is where if you see something interesting, you can just pull over, (or just stop in the middle of the road) and check it out. Perhaps someday, but not today.
 
OrientExpress said:
jbuntz said:
Here is an example of how a BEV road trip should be.

I've done that trip like this one many times over the years, almost all interstates, set the cruise control and watch the scenery fly by. I find it interesting that today the definition of a road trip is just that, driving the Interstate system.

You won't find many BEV road trip stories that use state, or US business route highways and secondary roads to take a classic road trip, simply because it really isn't for the faint of heart.

A real road trip is where if you see something interesting, you can just pull over, (or just stop in the middle of the road) and check it out. Perhaps someday, but not today.

fully agreed.... My best road trips are the ones that you have to travel between towns in a one-lane each way... I Love upstate NY for that...
 
Lothsahn said:
Also, how many hotels do you see with adequate L2 charging? We typically take one stop along the way, which means that charging overnight at the hotel would be key.
How many do you want ?

Joking aside, my review of Tesla destination chargers was that they tend to be installed at expensive places. I'm not going to spend 200+ USD for a hotel room just to charge so that network does not really figure into my travel plans. I do appreciate its existence though since I view it the same as RV parks: an emergency backup. These hotels almost always restrict charging to 'patrons,' but that is not limited to overnight stays. Paying for any of their services (food, e.g) typically qualifies.
 
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