SageBrush
Posts: 4795
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Tue May 07, 2019 6:54 am

WetEV wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
WetEV wrote:
I'd bet
Don't worry, the LEAF will just reach the rapid-gate threshold in 1/4 the time
Except it doesn't.
Because it doesn't charge at 100 kW.

The current kludge to decide on charging rate based on battery temperature at the start of charging is reliant on slow charging, otherwise the battery would heat up to cooking temps.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

WetEV
Posts: 3056
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Tue May 07, 2019 7:03 am

SageBrush wrote:
WetEV wrote:
SageBrush wrote: Don't worry, the LEAF will just reach the rapid-gate threshold in 1/4 the time
Except it doesn't.
Because it doesn't charge at 100 kW
The LEAF also doesn't do 139MPH. So?

Most charging is at home. At 1kW to 6kW.

LEAF doesn't have a fire problem. Tesla does.

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-tes ... ire-2019-4

I don't want a battery pack with water in it.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

SageBrush
Posts: 4795
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Tue May 07, 2019 7:38 am

WetEV wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
WetEV wrote:
Except it doesn't.
Because it doesn't charge at 100 kW
The LEAF also doesn't
Yeah ... the list is long, including charging at 100 kW which is what the fellow I responded to was asking about. Now now, not in the future for his model. The cooling design just does not have anywhere near the heat dissipation capacity required.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

WetEV
Posts: 3056
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Tue May 07, 2019 8:07 am

SageBrush wrote:
WetEV wrote:
SageBrush wrote: Because it doesn't charge at 100 kW
The LEAF also doesn't
Yeah ... the list is long, including charging at 100 kW which is what the fellow I responded to was asking about. Now now, not in the future for his model. The cooling design just does not have anywhere near the heat dissipation capacity required.
And doesn't have water in the battery case.

https://abc7news.com/automotive/tesla-m ... e/5283936/
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

lorenfb
Posts: 2248
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Tue May 07, 2019 8:31 am

stutech wrote:From what I can tell though my battery cools back down before I get to the next charger on the plus model with 50kw charging. My average speeds have been 65-70mph and the ambient temp was 60-80F. I would love to see how it does at 100kw charging with even warmer temps to get a true assessment.
It might be advisable to use LeadSpy to monitor your battery temperature after a QC or when driving at speeds greater than 55 mph.
The thermal time constant of the Leaf's battery to ambient is fairly lengthy, greater than an hour for a temp delta of 20 degrees,
i.e. the Leaf battery's thermal resistance to ambient is high. When charging or driving at the speed noted, the battery heats up
quickly, 10 - 15 minutes for a temp delta increase of 20 degrees, i.e. the Leaf's battery heats quickly the result of the battery's I^2 X R
losses from high QC rates or heavy motor loads. The high thermal resistance to ambient also results in a lengthy cool down time for
the Leaf battery.
Last edited by lorenfb on Tue May 07, 2019 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 4.5K miles, 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

SageBrush
Posts: 4795
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Tue May 07, 2019 8:34 am

lorenfb wrote: The thermal time constant of the Leaf's battery to ambient is fairly lengthy, greater than an hour for a temp delta of 20 degrees,
Did you mean a day ?
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

User avatar
OrientExpress
Posts: 1487
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Tue May 07, 2019 8:54 am

I am in the process of putting up a story on a 500 mile trip I took in a LEAF Plus from San Jost to Tahoe and back, and will post the link when it is done. I also charged it using the EVGo 85kW (100 peak) chargers.

The bottom line is that the battery does not seem to have any heat sensitivity or build up. Once the battery warms up to the mid-point on the temperature gauge, it stays there, even after running the car hard, then quick charging. On average with the faster chargers on shared sources the car would charge at about 58 kW and on the 50 kW chargers would charge at about 45 kW.

Image

This photo is after a 85kW (57kW) charge session, and previous to that lots of very fast freeway driving.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

WetEV
Posts: 3056
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 8:25 am
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2014
Location: Near Seattle, WA

Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Tue May 07, 2019 8:58 am

OrientExpress wrote:This photo is after a 85kW (57kW) charge session, and previous to that lots of very fast freeway driving.
What was the actual battery temperature? I can't decode idiot lights and bars without a cheat sheet.
WetEV
#49
Most everything around here is wet during the rainy season. And the rainy season is long.
2012 Leaf SL Red (Totaled)
2014 Leaf SL Red
2019 eTron Blue

User avatar
OrientExpress
Posts: 1487
Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:22 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2331
Location: San Jose, Ca

Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Tue May 07, 2019 9:01 am

WetEV wrote:What was the actual battery temperature?.
It was in the middle of the acceptable heat range for the 62 kWh battery.
2018 LEAF SL
Gun Metalic
Delivery April 10 2018

Prior LEAF:
2014 LEAF SV
Ocean Blue
Delivery May 23 2014
50,000+ miles - all 12 bars - Same range as new - No warranty issues ever!

lorenfb
Posts: 2248
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

Tue May 07, 2019 9:01 am

SageBrush wrote:
lorenfb wrote: The thermal time constant of the Leaf's battery to ambient is fairly lengthy, greater than an hour for a temp delta of 20 degrees,
Did you mean a day ?
After a 30 minute QC (avg power 30 kW) on my 2019 40 kWh Leaf, the battery temp reached 100F, ambient of 75F. After driving for
about 45 minutes at 35 - 40, the battery temp was at 80F. So based on that QC and driving at speeds greater than 50 -55 while
monitoring the Leaf's battery temp, my view is to only have one QC per day (or at best none), and limit my speed. My experience
is that any speeds greater than 50-55 for lengthy periods results in undesirable battery temps.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 4.5K miles, 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

Return to “Batteries & Charging”