Rapidgate on the 62 kWh Leaf Plus?

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TexasLeaf

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 21, 2018
Messages
115
Location
Texas
The Leaf Plus has been out a couple of months now and Autotrader actually has listings for about 50 new Leaf Plus models but I have not yet read any articles/reports on long distance trips in the Leaf Plus with multiple fast charges. I know Nissan has been saying that the Leaf Plus is not prone to battery overheating and slow charging with multiple fast charges like the 40 kWh Leaf is but I would really like to see some real world tests before I buy in to what Nissan is saying. Has anybody seen any long distance articles/reports on the Leaf Plus that tested multiple fast charges?
 
This might be one of those things that we will just have to wait for. Nissan obviously isn't going to offer up anything, not with all the competition out there and their last minute decision to drop active cooling.

:|
 
Do we know how much battery reserve there is? It was my impression that Nissan was battling the degrade issue with a large reserve, perhaps not much different that 40kWh Leaf strategy.
 
I use EVgo under Nissan's free No Charge to Charge program and offer you this data point.

As you may know, the program limits rapid charging session to 30 minutes, so no problem I just use the app to start a new session immediately after the first one stops (meantime, I'm grabbing lunch or something). I did this many times with my 2018, 40 kWh LEAF and the second session significantly dropped charging levels. I'm sure some of this was from the battery limiting due to the SOC getting high around the same time and some from Rapidgate, hard to differentiate.

I've only done the 2 session charge on my 2019 Plus twice but the results are promising. So far, I am only seeing about 25% drop vs nearly 50% experienced with last years model. Here's the highlight:

*62kWh - Avg kWh
1st Session - 44.2
2nd Session - 32.5

40kWh - Avg kWh
1st Session - 31.8
2nd Session - 17.3


* Limited data set, only 2 quick charges
 
umdkevin said:
*62kWh - Avg kWh
1st Session - 44.2
2nd Session - 32.5

40kWh - Avg kWh
1st Session - 31.8
2nd Session - 17.3
Is that supposed to be average kW ? If so what calculation was performed ?
 
retrodog said:
This might be one of those things that we will just have to wait for. Nissan obviously isn't going to offer up anything, not with all the competition out there and their last minute decision to drop active cooling.

:|
On my 2019 sl plus I don't seem to have rapidgate anymore, I traded in a 2018 sv that was an early model and definitely had rapid gate. The battery obviously heats up from charging, but I haven't seen it go much past the center yet on the several 300+ mile trips i've taken. I was using electrify America chargers and couldn't get more than 50kw of charging at any of them though. My average rate was about 48kw and didn't really drop until over 85% most the time. On evgo I get terrible rates, mainly because the charger itself seems old and like it can barely keep 50kw. I've also used chargepoint ones, and they seem to give a nice constant 50kw. From what I can tell though my battery cools back down before I get to the next charger on the plus model with 50kw charging. My average speeds have been 65-70mph and the ambient temp was 60-80F. I would love to see how it does at 100kw charging with even warmer temps to get a true assessment.
 
stutech said:
I would love to see how it does at 100kw charging with even warmer temps to get a true assessment.
4x the heat generation.

In a LEAF with a fan blowing over the case for heat dissipation ? That sounds like a recipe for a fire.
 
SageBrush said:
stutech said:
I would love to see how it does at 100kw charging with even warmer temps to get a true assessment.
4x the heat generation.

In a LEAF with a fan blowing over the case for heat dissipation ? That sounds like a recipe for a fire.

I'd bet more Tesla's torch. The difference is that Tesla has water in the battery pack. Water and Lithium don't mix well. Get a leak, and something like this happens:

180618133159-tesla-fire-thumbnail-text-1024x576.jpeg
 
WetEV said:
SageBrush said:
stutech said:
I would love to see how it does at 100kw charging with even warmer temps to get a true assessment.
4x the heat generation.

In a LEAF with a fan blowing over the case for heat dissipation ? That sounds like a recipe for a fire.

I'd bet
Don't worry, the LEAF will just reach the rapid-gate threshold in 1/4 the time :lol:

The Tesla has its own version of rapid gate. Although charging can reach 250 kW using V3 superchargers, it quickly starts to taper. I will only average ~ 175 kW charging up the first half of the battery.
 
WetEV said:
SageBrush said:
WetEV said:
Don't worry, the LEAF will just reach the rapid-gate threshold in 1/4 the time

Except it doesn't.
Because it doesn't charge at 100 kW.

The current kludge to decide on charging rate based on battery temperature at the start of charging is reliant on slow charging, otherwise the battery would heat up to cooking temps.
 
SageBrush said:
WetEV said:
SageBrush said:
Don't worry, the LEAF will just reach the rapid-gate threshold in 1/4 the time

Except it doesn't.
Because it doesn't charge at 100 kW

The LEAF also doesn't do 139MPH. So?

Most charging is at home. At 1kW to 6kW.

LEAF doesn't have a fire problem. Tesla does.

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-tesla-cars-catch-on-fire-2019-4

I don't want a battery pack with water in it.
 
WetEV said:
SageBrush said:
WetEV said:
Except it doesn't.
Because it doesn't charge at 100 kW

The LEAF also doesn't
Yeah ... the list is long, including charging at 100 kW which is what the fellow I responded to was asking about. Now now, not in the future for his model. The cooling design just does not have anywhere near the heat dissipation capacity required.
 
SageBrush said:
WetEV said:
SageBrush said:
Because it doesn't charge at 100 kW

The LEAF also doesn't
Yeah ... the list is long, including charging at 100 kW which is what the fellow I responded to was asking about. Now now, not in the future for his model. The cooling design just does not have anywhere near the heat dissipation capacity required.

And doesn't have water in the battery case.

https://abc7news.com/automotive/tesla-model-s-catches-fire-in-sf-garage/5283936/
 
stutech said:
From what I can tell though my battery cools back down before I get to the next charger on the plus model with 50kw charging. My average speeds have been 65-70mph and the ambient temp was 60-80F. I would love to see how it does at 100kw charging with even warmer temps to get a true assessment.

It might be advisable to use LeadSpy to monitor your battery temperature after a QC or when driving at speeds greater than 55 mph.
The thermal time constant of the Leaf's battery to ambient is fairly lengthy, greater than an hour for a temp delta of 20 degrees,
i.e. the Leaf battery's thermal resistance to ambient is high. When charging or driving at the speed noted, the battery heats up
quickly, 10 - 15 minutes for a temp delta increase of 20 degrees, i.e. the Leaf's battery heats quickly the result of the battery's I^2 X R
losses from high QC rates or heavy motor loads. The high thermal resistance to ambient also results in a lengthy cool down time for
the Leaf battery.
 
lorenfb said:
The thermal time constant of the Leaf's battery to ambient is fairly lengthy, greater than an hour for a temp delta of 20 degrees,
Did you mean a day ?
 
I am in the process of putting up a story on a 500 mile trip I took in a LEAF Plus from San Jost to Tahoe and back, and will post the link when it is done. I also charged it using the EVGo 85kW (100 peak) chargers.

The bottom line is that the battery does not seem to have any heat sensitivity or build up. Once the battery warms up to the mid-point on the temperature gauge, it stays there, even after running the car hard, then quick charging. On average with the faster chargers on shared sources the car would charge at about 58 kW and on the 50 kW chargers would charge at about 45 kW.

2019%20leaf%20temp.jpg


This photo is after a 85kW (57kW) charge session, and previous to that lots of very fast freeway driving.
 
OrientExpress said:
This photo is after a 85kW (57kW) charge session, and previous to that lots of very fast freeway driving.

What was the actual battery temperature? I can't decode idiot lights and bars without a cheat sheet.
 
SageBrush said:
lorenfb said:
The thermal time constant of the Leaf's battery to ambient is fairly lengthy, greater than an hour for a temp delta of 20 degrees,
Did you mean a day ?

After a 30 minute QC (avg power 30 kW) on my 2019 40 kWh Leaf, the battery temp reached 100F, ambient of 75F. After driving for
about 45 minutes at 35 - 40, the battery temp was at 80F. So based on that QC and driving at speeds greater than 50 -55 while
monitoring the Leaf's battery temp, my view is to only have one QC per day (or at best none), and limit my speed. My experience
is that any speeds greater than 50-55 for lengthy periods results in undesirable battery temps.
 
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