Based on what I've seen (not that much) it looks to me like we're seeing a pack with heat resistance in between the Canary and Wolf packs. My first nickname of "Lettuce pack" may be too harsh. "Cabbage Pack"...?cwerdna wrote:Another person at https://www.facebook.com/groups/NissanL ... 5303971444 also replying to the same person's (initials TC) post (in another group) mentions they're down 2 bars on their 30 kWh Leaf, post-update (with about 17.8K miles). Don't know where they are now, but in older posts, they said they live in Los Angeles.
Seen worse in the Pacific NW. Primary driver for degradation is likely the end user. He didn't say anything about his charging habits. It still comes back to Nissan not providing any options other than "just plug it in"cwerdna wrote:The person at https://www.facebook.com/groups/4377412 ... 445619506/ posted there and at least 2 other closed FB groups. He has a 30 kWh Leaf and wroteHis profile says he lives in Utah.Bought my 2016 SV new in August of 2016...
-Lost my first bar Oct 2017
23,384 miles
-Lost my second bar Apr 2018
33,025 miles
*Got the battery update/recall (30kWh)
June 2018, and got my two bars back.
35,505
-Lost my first bar AGAIN Aug 2018.
38,803 miles
-Lost my second bar AGAIN today May 2019
51,088 miles
Live in temperate climate.
Don't have LEAF Spy.
...Still love my little LEAFY
It does seem like these 30 kWh packs are a step backwards from the "lizard" packs, even post-update.
I'll guess not games, but pack variability. I think AESC QC is poor. It seems fairly clear that Nissan wanted to exit AESC and go with LG cells but they are stuck for now with a 25% ownership stake in AESC and an obligation to use AESC cell ... and even less control over QC than they had before. Not that QC was ever that good to begin with.LeftieBiker wrote:I was afraid of this. It seems more unpredictable than with the Canary packs, though. Some 30kwh packs lose no bars for years, while others - even in milder climate - lose a bar a year. Nissan is playing games again.
I think LG capability to supply cells was another factor. Its not like they are having problems finding customers.SageBrush wrote:I'll guess not games, but pack variability. I think AESC QC is poor. It seems fairly clear that Nissan wanted to exit AESC and go with LG cells but they are stuck for now with a 25% ownership stake in AESC ... and even less control over QC than they had before. Not that QC was ever that good to begin with.LeftieBiker wrote:I was afraid of this. It seems more unpredictable than with the Canary packs, though. Some 30kwh packs lose no bars for years, while others - even in milder climate - lose a bar a year. Nissan is playing games again.
Their contract with AESC forces them into a non-competitive, one supplier only position. This is not an LG issue, this is Nissan eating crow to partially exit AESC.DaveinOlyWA wrote:I think LG capability to supply cells was another factor.SageBrush wrote:I'll guess not games, but pack variability. I think AESC QC is poor. It seems fairly clear that Nissan wanted to exit AESC and go with LG cells but they are stuck for now with a 25% ownership stake in AESC ... and even less control over QC than they had before. Not that QC was ever that good to begin with.LeftieBiker wrote:I was afraid of this. It seems more unpredictable than with the Canary packs, though. Some 30kwh packs lose no bars for years, while others - even in milder climate - lose a bar a year. Nissan is playing games again.
The "games" to which I refer are claiming that this is all just a BMS programming error, and that their BMS update will fix the problem - which never really existed according to them. I was suspicious of this from the first, because a factory programming error should have affected ALL of the BMS units manufactured in a certain time frame - not just some of them.SageBrush wrote:I'll guess not games, but pack variability. I think AESC QC is poor. It seems fairly clear that Nissan wanted to exit AESC and go with LG cells but they are stuck for now with a 25% ownership stake in AESC and an obligation to use AESC cell ... and even less control over QC than they had before. Not that QC was ever that good to begin with.LeftieBiker wrote:I was afraid of this. It seems more unpredictable than with the Canary packs, though. Some 30kwh packs lose no bars for years, while others - even in milder climate - lose a bar a year. Nissan is playing games again.
Do you, or have you done computer programming of embedded systems for a living, Leftie?LeftieBiker wrote:The "games" to which I refer are claiming that this is all just a BMS programming error, and that their BMS update will fix the problem - which never really existed according to them. I was suspicious of this from the first, because a factory programming error should have affected ALL of the BMS units manufactured in a certain time frame - not just some of them.SageBrush wrote:I'll guess not games, but pack variability. I think AESC QC is poor. It seems fairly clear that Nissan wanted to exit AESC and go with LG cells but they are stuck for now with a 25% ownership stake in AESC and an obligation to use AESC cell ... and even less control over QC than they had before. Not that QC was ever that good to begin with.LeftieBiker wrote:I was afraid of this. It seems more unpredictable than with the Canary packs, though. Some 30kwh packs lose no bars for years, while others - even in milder climate - lose a bar a year. Nissan is playing games again.
Nope. And despite not having a degree in automotive engineering I managed to discover, at my desk at home, that Nissan was using the old battery chemistry in early build 2013 Leafs. Sometimes all you need is a firm grasp of general scientific and technological principles - like realizing that all the BMS units manufactured at the same time, at the same factory, would have all received the same firmware, and that all of those BMS units - not just some of them - would then misreport the pack's capacity. You are engaging in a logical fallacy that is very similar to the "appeal to authority" that argues that only those who have been officially titled as experts in a field can understand that field, and are thus the only people to be believed in any discussion of that field. Like Ford engineers, in a discussion of why Pintos were exploding in low speed accidents. Or Boeing engineers, in a discussion of why their planes only needed one airspeed sensor, and why a system relying entirely on that sensor should be able to override pilot input...Do you, or have you done computer programming of embedded systems for a living, Leftie?