Illinois Insanity

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
rmay635703 said:
WetEV said:
Oilpan4 said:
You know what this means.
They really aren't worried about and/or don't care about man made climate change.
Money is more important than environmental damage.

In your value system, perhaps.

One of the folks who bought a $3500 IMIEV a couple years ago then got bit by a dramatic increase in registration costs
looked into the fine for having expired registration and it was like $100 and rarely caught in the real world anyway.

My uncle was one of “those guys” silly taxes like this will result in more of “those guys” on the road

Exactly.
If NM picked up a ridiculous EV tax I would probably let mine expire and drive on expired tags, or sell it and get somethingthe tax doesn't apply to.
 
Oilpan4 said:
The only benefit I see is a brief flood of used EVs hitting the market.

My car (and many others here) came from Georgia, (hint hint)
boneheaded taxes kill the already tough used EV market
And maybe that’s the point
 
Coinneach said:
Evoforce said:
Arizona, as of the first of this year, does not have reduced EV registration. Governor wanted more money for Sheriffs dept. Easy money...

We should get breaks, we are not contributing more foul air to the planet. Our type of cars generally cost more new so give us a break...

All we get is $75 for installing a home charger.

Say what? My registration including the DPS (not shurfs) fee was $67. Compare that to the ~$400 I paid for the first year on my 2016 Civic.

Look at the references Evoforce linked in his earlier post. The big increase will come in 2020. I have not yet been able to find out if it applies to all alternative fuel vehicles or just new purchases after the date when it takes effect in 2020. If it applies to all alternative fuel vehicles, there will be one less used EV available for someone to purchase in AZ and a new car dealer will lose a sale because I will keep mine instead of purchasing a longer-range EV.

Most of the EVs in AZ are located in the Phoenix metro area which is often on the verge of fines from EPA for violating Federal air pollution limits. There are frequent restrictions on the use of gasoline-powered lawn and garden equipment, limitations on the use of unpaved parking areas, and other restrictions in attempt to avoid violations. Therefore, it makes absolutely no sense for the legislature and governor to pass laws that discourage the use of vehicles that do not contribute to local pollution (and still pollute less than gasoline or diesel vehicles even when power plant pollution is considered).
 
webb14leafs said:
The $1000 figure is insane, but I do understand states that have surcharges. Maintenance on Roads and Bridges are largely funded by gas taxes. We still drive on those roads and should pay our fair share.

Fine, eliminate the gasoline tax and charge ALL owners $1000.
 
Nubo said:
webb14leafs said:
The $1000 figure is insane, but I do understand states that have surcharges. Maintenance on Roads and Bridges are largely funded by gas taxes. We still drive on those roads and should pay our fair share.

Fine, eliminate the gasoline tax and charge ALL owners $1000.

The air pollution reduction from EVs at least offsets the loss of gas tax revenue. Breathing related illnesses cost a lot of money.
 
Nubo said:
webb14leafs said:
The $1000 figure is insane, but I do understand states that have surcharges. Maintenance on Roads and Bridges are largely funded by gas taxes. We still drive on those roads and should pay our fair share.

Fine, eliminate the gasoline tax and charge ALL owners $1000.

A logical solution that will probably never happen. As I said, the $1000 figure is ridiculous. A usage tax on gasoline has made sense for years, especially when you consider that ligher/fuel efficient cars do less damage to roadways and thus pay less total tax. There's just no way to apply this type of tax to EVs.
 
webb14leafs said:
There's just no way to apply this type of tax to EVs.

Yes there already is
municipal substation taxes are already charged per kilowatt hour in all areas of the country
This tax goes into the general fund which in my area is where most non-federal road funding comes from.

If by some miracle every car was an EV the government could simply manipulate this tax
True unrelated consumer uses would also pay the road tax but it’s no different than my lawnmower or home generator paying road tax and commercial industrial customers are generally exempt but we could change that.

Don’t know why people are so hung up on directly charging individuals fees that are labeled “road tax” when that is both inefficient, has an element of fraud, and is regressive to the poor.

I guess 11 years of Koch bros propaganda telling us we are all of a sudden not paying our fair share is finally hitting home.

In reality the infantesmally small number of EVs on the road play no role in the made up road funding crisis
It’s a red herring and has to do with mismanagement of all the other tax bases that are meant to fund road repairs that magically get diverted to something else. It also doesn’t help that consumer tastes have changed in that more consumers are lazy and have most things shipped to them, in my area taxis and delivery trucks are road tax exempt, perhaps that should change?

Ah well
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
LOL here we go with the Koch bros again

They do like their taxes in Illinois.

Our former governor met with them weekly,

When was the last time you called your governor?
 
Nubo said:
webb14leafs said:
The $1000 figure is insane, but I do understand states that have surcharges. Maintenance on Roads and Bridges are largely funded by gas taxes. We still drive on those roads and should pay our fair share.

Fine, eliminate the gasoline tax and charge ALL owners $1000.
The petrol tax s/b a pollution tax so keep it. In addition slap ALL vehicles with the same $1,000 for the roads ;)
 
webb14leafs said:
Nubo said:
webb14leafs said:
The $1000 figure is insane, but I do understand states that have surcharges. Maintenance on Roads and Bridges are largely funded by gas taxes. We still drive on those roads and should pay our fair share.

Fine, eliminate the gasoline tax and charge ALL owners $1000.

A logical solution that will probably never happen. As I said, the $1000 figure is ridiculous. A usage tax on gasoline has made sense for years, especially when you consider that ligher/fuel efficient cars do less damage to roadways and thus pay less total tax. There's just no way to apply this type of tax to EVs.

Honestly, use-taxes for roads are archaic. Gasoline tax made sense when motorists were a minority clamoring for infrastructure. In today's world the roads are a public commons and benefit everyone regardless of miles driven or whether or not they even own or drive a car. Roads should be funded from general taxes.
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
LOL here we go with the Koch bros again

They do like their taxes in Illinois.

Do a search on "Koch brothers anti EV". The results look like "here we go again" with trying to slow down/eliminate EV adoption.
I didn't find anything on the Koch bros whining about subsidies or tax credits for fossil fuel industries.
Just sayin'
 
rmay635703 said:
Don’t know why people are so hung up on directly charging individuals fees that are labeled “road tax” when that is both inefficient, has an element of fraud, and is regressive to the poor.

The idea is good, and comes from Adam Smith, the 18th century economist, or perhaps before.

By taxing the people that use something to build and/or maintain that something, the tax is sustainable and generally seen as fair.

If you tax someone that does not use the something, they will feel aggrieved and not want to pay. And the people that are using the something are not motivated to use it wisely. Both are important.

You use a bridge, you pay a toll, or in some similar way pay for the infrastructure you use. As long as bridges are expensive to build, it can make sense to charge the people using the bridge to pay for the bridge. That keeps the usage wise, as people see the cost directly.


We should also tax people that use the atmosphere as a dumping ground for CO2, nitrogen oxide, and more. Same general principal.
 
Nubo said:
In today's world the roads are a public commons and benefit everyone regardless of miles driven or whether or not they even own or drive a car. Roads should be funded from general taxes.

Commons? Generally a bad idea.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/162/3859/1243.full

Why do you think cities are looking at congestion pricing?
 
rmay635703 said:
It’s a red herring and has to do with mismanagement of all the other tax bases that are meant to fund road repairs that magically get diverted to something else.
I won't be surprised when this $1000 fee IL is proposing doesn't go to road maintenance either.

smkettner said:
The petrol tax s/b a pollution tax so keep it. In addition slap ALL vehicles with the same $1,000 for the roads ;)
+1
 
WetEV said:
Nubo said:
In today's world the roads are a public commons and benefit everyone regardless of miles driven or whether or not they even own or drive a car. Roads should be funded from general taxes.

Commons? Generally a bad idea.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/162/3859/1243.full

Why do you think cities are looking at congestion pricing?

Congestion pricing only works if you include something akin to Kei car laws in the mix, or you loose productivity alongside traffic
 
rmay635703 said:
WetEV said:
Nubo said:
In today's world the roads are a public commons and benefit everyone regardless of miles driven or whether or not they even own or drive a car. Roads should be funded from general taxes.

Commons? Generally a bad idea.

https://science.sciencemag.org/content/162/3859/1243.full

Why do you think cities are looking at congestion pricing?

Congestion pricing only works if you include something akin to Kei car laws in the mix, or you loose productivity alongside traffic

Loose productivity might hit someone. Maybe "lose"?

I don't have a clue why Kei cars would have more than marginal impact on congestion and congestion pricing. Perhaps you might explain.
 
Back
Top