Uneven Front Tyre Wear Question

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SageBrush

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 6, 2011
Messages
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Location
NM
I noticed today that both front tyres have excessive outside tyre wear. Some googling and reading gave me a list of possibilities but I would like to try to narrow them down with some help. The car has 30k miles and has not been in any accidents although my wife is attracted to potholes and I tend to pump up the tyres to max sidewall rated psi.

Does the wear on both front tyres point to the cause ?
I'm inclined to seek a mechanic review of the suspension, and if no bent parts are found to get an alignment. Is this a reasonable approach ?
Something better ?
 
If you keep the tires up to at least 42 psi and have outside edge wear on both tires, I would check for excessive toe-in. Of course, aggressive cornering will tend to wear the outside edges of the front tires even with proper alignment and adequate inflation. That is why I rotate my Leaf's tires every 5,000 miles or so and cross the ones from the front when moving them to the back.
 
I'll be delighted to find out that all that is needed is an alignment. Does it surprise anybody that both tyres show the same wear pattern ? I have it stuck in my head that each tyre has its own independent alignment, even though pictures tend to show tyre wear patterns in pairs. Why is that so ?
 
Toe in causes the tires to wear on the edges and because the caster forces the the contact point to trail the axles slightly, tires will usually wear either on the inside edges if the toe in is too high or on the outside edges if the toe in is too low. One of the symptoms is drift to one side and another is misalignment of the steering wheel to the right or left of center. Wear on both edges of a tire either indicates too low a tire pressure or excessive hard cornering (scrubbing). Wear in the center of the tire is almost always too high a tire pressure. Nissan sets the tire pressure too low to improve the ride quality. Tires should be set to 40-44 PSI for best tire wear.
 
Excessive toe-in will cause the outside edges to wear. Insufficient toe-in (or actual toe-out) will cause inside edges to wear. Incorrect caster and/or camber can cause one front tire to wear differently from the other.

The toe-in was slightly higher than recommended when I had the alignment checked after replacing the original tires on my 2011, but all other settings were within specifications. I have not yet checked front wheel alignment on my 2015, but tire wear is fairly even.
 
johnlocke said:
Toe in causes the tires to wear on the edges and because the caster forces the the contact point to trail the axles slightly, tires will usually wear either on the inside edges if the toe in is too high or on the outside edges if the toe in is too low. One of the symptoms is drift to one side and another is misalignment of the steering wheel to the right or left of center. Wear on both edges of a tire either indicates too low a tire pressure or excessive hard cornering (scrubbing). Wear in the center of the tire is almost always too high a tire pressure. Nissan sets the tire pressure too low to improve the ride quality. Tires should be set to 40-44 PSI for best tire wear.

Excellent, accurate comment, Johnlocke. :)
 
SageBrush said:
I'll be delighted to find out that all that is needed is an alignment. Does it surprise anybody that both tyres show the same wear pattern ? I have it stuck in my head that each tyre has its own independent alignment, even though pictures tend to show tyre wear patterns in pairs. Why is that so ?
Caster and camber settings are independent for each wheel (if they are adjustable at all), but toe-in is a relative setting across an axle. To drive in a straight line, any deviation of the wheel's rotation axis from perpendicular to the direction of travel needs to be equal in magnitude and opposite direction across an axle. If it isn't, the vehicle will not continue in a straight line. Thus, too much toe in wears both tires outside edges equally.
 
Does it surprise anybody that both tyres show the same wear pattern ? I have it stuck in my head that each tyre has its own independent alignment, even though pictures tend to show tyre wear patterns in pairs.

I used to buy and resell Ford Mavericks, and one of the things I liked about them was the very easy Toe-in adjustment. Just a bolt for each upper arm with an eccentric cam on it. Back in those days tires often did develop issues just one wheel at a time. Most Mavericks I gave the Quick & Dirty Alignment just needed it on one wheel.
 
LeftieBiker said:
I used to buy and resell Ford Mavericks, and one of the things I liked about them was the very easy Toe-in adjustment. Just a bolt for each upper arm with an eccentric cam on it. Back in those days tires often did develop issues just one wheel at a time. Most Mavericks I gave the Quick & Dirty Alignment just needed it on one wheel.

Leftie,
That was caster or camber adjustment (much easier than installing offset shims or bushings on many modern vehicles). Toe-in is changed by adjusting the length of the steering tie rods. As noted previously, too much toe-in causes excessive wear on the outside edges of both tires. On the Leaf, excessive toe-in also makes the car more prone to sway on grooved pavement or bridge decks (depends upon tire characteristics).
 
I would definitively have a 4 wheel computer alignment at 30,000 miles. It should be done anyway.

However, this excessive wear on the outside does not necessarily sound like a problem. My original tires were TRASHED at 40K miles, with bald outside of tires. I have heard that the Leafs are particularly rough on tires with hard turning.

I have had better luck with the "plus" version of the OEM tires.
 
GerryAZ said:
LeftieBiker said:
I used to buy and resell Ford Mavericks, and one of the things I liked about them was the very easy Toe-in adjustment. Just a bolt for each upper arm with an eccentric cam on it. Back in those days tires often did develop issues just one wheel at a time. Most Mavericks I gave the Quick & Dirty Alignment just needed it on one wheel.

Leftie,
That was caster or camber adjustment (much easier than installing offset shims or bushings on many modern vehicles). Toe-in is changed by adjusting the length of the steering tie rods. As noted previously, too much toe-in causes excessive wear on the outside edges of both tires. On the Leaf, excessive toe-in also makes the car more prone to sway on grooved pavement or bridge decks (depends upon tire characteristics).

Are you sure? The cam-bolt moved the bottoms of the wheels in or out in relation to vertical. I always thought that was toe-in.
 
Toe-in is the angle front to back, or the angle of the tires relative to each other - or the center of the road - as viewed from above.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toe_(automotive)
 
Yes. Toe-in adjusts the wheel's orientation around a vertical axis. (Steering also changes the wheel's orientation around that same axis [as a first approximation].) Camber adjusts a wheel's orientation around an axis parallel to the long axis of the car. The third axis is the one the wheel spins around.

Caster changes the steering axis from being vertical to pointing in front of the center of the tire's footprint on the ground.
 
Camber is the angle of the tire from vertical of the sidewall. Castor is the angle from vertical of the kingpin perpendicular to the axle . It is designed to place the tire patch slightly behind the pivot point of the tire to increase stability. Toe-in is the angle of the tires parallel to the main axis of the car. Caster is usually fixed by design and can't be changed. Many cars have a fixed camber as well, although some cars have eccentric bolts to adjust camber and you can buy kits for some cars that add a camber adjustment. Camber is primarily there to even the tire wear due to scrubbing and prevent the tire patch from lifting on the inside edge and losing traction.
 
Just wanted to add my experience with wheel alignment with respect to my 2013 Nissan Leaf and 2001 Subaru Forester.

Pulling in either direction is caused by Camber imbalance and not by toe settings. Excessive outside edge tire wear is caused by excessive toe-in settings of the tires. Excessive inside edge wear is caused by excessive toe out.

It is rare but possible that excessive negative camber will cause inside tire wear, but this wear is not just the the edge like toe wear, it is spread across more of the width of the tire.

With respect to the Nissan Leaf, unless one installs camber bolts on the front struts, camber is not adjustable. Only front toe is adjustable. Since the rear is a solid axle rear toe and camber is fixed. Although I have seen spacers on sale that can be installed to allow for some rear camber and toe adjustments. Until recently my 2013 Nissan Leaf was showing signs of front outside edge wear. I gave it no thought as I thought this was due to cornering. However last week, I took vehicle in for the recent battery recall, and the dealer mentioned they detected the alignment was not correct!!! I declined to have the alignment adjusted due to cost and I have tools at home to handle the alignment.

So today I looked at the Leaf's alignment. The camber almost matched between the L and R wheels, off slightly by 0.6 degrees. However the toe was completely wrong. The front toe was 3mm toe-in instead of 2mm toe-out. After 1/2 turn on each side, I obtained 2.5mm toe-out.

Couple of years ago, I tried to correct for pulling and crooked steering wheel on my 2001 Subaru Forester. I made some mistakes in my measurement and ruined set of tires with too much toe-in. But it was a learning experience with respect to how camber if not balanced between both sides causes pulling and excessive toe-in caused edge wear.
 
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