GRA
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Mon Apr 29, 2019 3:47 pm

GCC:
BP, Nouryon and Port of Rotterdam partner on green hydrogen study; 250 MW electrolyzer
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/0 ... 29-bp.html
BP, Nouryon (formerly AkzoNobel Specialty Chemicals), and the Port of Rotterdam will collaborate to explore the opportunity of making green hydrogen via water electrolysis for BP’s refinery in Rotterdam, the Netherlands, which has the potential for significant reductions in CO2 emissions.

The refinery currently uses hydrogen made from hydrocarbons to desulfurize products. Replacing this entirely with green hydrogen produced from water using renewable energy could potentially result in a reduction of 350,000 tons of CO2 emissions per year based on current circumstances.

The parties have signed a memorandum of understanding to study the feasibility of a 250-megawatt water electrolysis facility to produce up to 45,000 tons of green hydrogen yearly using renewable energy. It would be the largest of its kind in Europe.

Nouryon would build and operate the facility based on its leadership position in sustainable electrochemistry. The Port of Rotterdam would facilitate local infrastructure and investigate options for further development of a green hydrogen hub in the area. The partners intend to take a final investment decision on the project in 2022. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 11071
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Mon May 13, 2019 4:06 pm

GCC:
ITM Power extends hydrogen fueling agreement with Shell in UK to 2024
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/0 ... 1-itm.html
. . . The new agreement will run until 2024, and covers the refueling of all types of hydrogen vehicles; from passenger cars to commercial vehicles, including buses, trucks, trains and ships.

Currently ITM Power operates two hydrogen refueling stations (HRS) at Shell service stations at both Shell Cobham on the M25 and Shell Beaconsfield on the M40. Four further HRS are funded.

The HRS at Shell Gatwick is under construction and will be opened later this year; Shell Derby will also follow in 2019, with two further London stations also planned. The UK hydrogen refueling station network has been jointly funded by the UK’s Office for Low Emission Vehicles and the Fuel Cells and Hydrogen Joint Undertaking.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 11071
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Mon May 13, 2019 5:04 pm

ABG:
Bosch to drastically reduce platinum use in future fuel cells
Toyota and Hyundai are also cutting down on use of the precious metal
https://www.autoblog.com/2019/05/13/hyd ... reduction/
Global automotive supplier Bosch expects platinum to play only a minor role in its new fuel cells, giving precious metal markets scant benefit even as the technology gains momentum for pollution-free transport.

According to Reuters calculations, Bosch would only need a tenth of the platinum used in current fuel cell vehicles.

Hopes of reviving demand and prices of platinum increasingly hinges on widespread uptake of fuel cells in vehicles, ships and trains to make up for dwindling amounts used in each device, analysts say.

The spot price of platinum has shed more than 40 percent in the last five years, burdened by persistent oversupply, before rebounding slightly in recent months. . . .

Privately-owned Bosch, which last month signed a deal with Powercell Sweden AB to mass produce fuel cells, said its fuel cell design was not finalized, but it expects them to use only as much platinum as a diesel catalytic converter.

A catalytic converter in a diesel passenger vehicle typically uses three to seven grams of platinum compared with around 30-60 grams currently needed for a fuel cell for the same vehicle, according to analysts. . . .

TOYOTA ALSO SLASHES PLATINUM

Bosch's fuel cell deal with Powercell, announced last month, was another signal that the technology is poised to be rolled out more widely as governments toughen emissions regulations.

China is leading the way, targeting 2 million fuel cell vehicles by 2030. . . .

The best selling fuel cell vehicle, Toyota's Mirai, is expected to cut platinum by two-thirds to around 10 grams per vehicle in its next version, down from 30 grams in the current model, according David Hart, director of E4tech consultancy, based in Lausanne.

"They (fuel cell makers) all have a pathway of using less platinum, which is fairly clear," Hart said.

Toyota Motor Corp declined to comment.

Hyundai Motor Co has cut the amount of platinum needed for the fuel cell stack in the latest edition of its NEXO, released last year, to 56 grams from 78 grams previously, a company spokesman told Reuters.

Hyundai plans to invest over 6 billion euros to make 700,000 fuel cell systems annually by 2030. . . .

"The heavy duty truck side is the biggest initial opportunity for fuel cells because they are very hard to electrify with batteries," said Mårten Wikforss, a consultant for Sweden's Powercell. . . .

If fuel cells catch on in ships and trains as well as road vehicles, platinum demand may get a boost despite the lower loadings due to the sheer numbers, some analysts said.

Global demand for platinum for all fuel cells from vehicles is forecast rise to 366,000 ounces by 2030 but to surge to 965,000 ounces when including other fuel cell and hydrogen uses, said Jonathan Butler, head of business development at Mitsubishi Corp.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 11071
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Sun Jun 02, 2019 3:56 pm

GCC:
US, Canada, Japan, Netherlands, and EC launch new hydrogen initiative
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/0 ... 01-h2.html
. . . The new hydrogen initiative will drive international collaboration on policies, programs and projects to accelerate the commercial deployment of hydrogen and fuel cell technologies across all sectors of the economy.

Drawing on the recommendations from the Hydrogen Energy Ministerial Meeting in 2018 in Japan, this cross-country collaboration will build on the successes of other global collaboration on hydrogen such as the Hydrogen Challenge under Mission Innovation, the ongoing work through the International Partnership for Hydrogen and Fuel Cells in the Economy and global analysis carried out through the International Energy Agency (IEA). . . .

The new Hydrogen Initiative will focus on how hydrogen can contribute to cleaner energy systems, while promoting sustainability, resiliency and energy security. Initial work carried out through the initiative will focus on three different areas:
    • Helping to ensure successful deployment of hydrogen within current industrial applications.

      Enabling deployment of hydrogen technologies in transport (e.g freight, mass transit, light-rail, marine).

      Exploring the role of hydrogen in meeting the energy needs of communities.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 11071
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Mon Jun 03, 2019 6:29 pm

GCC:
World’s largest renewable energy storage project announced in Utah; grid-scale energy storage with renewable hydrogen production
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/0 ... -utah.html
Mitsubishi Hitachi Power Systems (MHPS) and Magnum Development announced an initiative to launch the Advanced Clean Energy Storage (ACES) project in central Utah. The world’s largest project of its kind, the ACES initiative will develop 1,000 MW of 100% clean energy storage, thereby deploying technologies and strategies essential to a decarbonized future for the power grid of the Western United States. . . .

As a next step in decarbonization, MHPS has developed gas turbine technology that enables a mixture of renewable hydrogen and natural gas to produce power with even lower carbon emissions. The MHPS technology roadmap aims to use 100% renewable hydrogen as a fuel source, which will allow gas turbines to produce electricity with zero carbon emissions.

Magnum Development owns and controls the only known “Gulf Coast” style domal-quality salt formation in the western United States. With five salt caverns already in operation for liquid fuels storage, Magnum is continuing to develop Compressed Air Energy Storage and renewable hydrogen storage options. Strategically located adjacent to the Intermountain Power Project, the Magnum site is positioned to integrate seamlessly with the western US power grid utilizing existing infrastructure. . . .

Continued deployment of renewables will require that excess power be stored for later use. To serve the needs of the entire western United States, many gigawatt-hours of storage capacity are required.

Initially developing enough energy storage to completely serve the needs of 150,000 households for an entire year, the ACES initiative will deploy four types of clean energy storage at utility scale. These energy storage technologies include:
  • Renewable hydrogen
    Compressed Air Energy Storage
    Large scale flow batteries
    Solid oxide fuel cells
The ACES project will engineer, finance, construct, own, and operate facilities to be located in Millard County, Utah. Over the coming weeks and months, additional strategic and financial partners will be invited to participate.
Note that utilities often list sites as so many (k/M/G/) Watts of storage, because they are concerned with meeting power demand, so it's not clear to me if the "1,000 MW" (i.e. 1 GW) number should be MWh or not.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

WetEV
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:06 pm

GRA wrote:Note that utilities often list sites as so many (k/M/G/) Watts of storage, because they are concerned with meeting power demand, so it's not clear to me if the "1,000 MW" (i.e. 1 GW) number should be MWh or not.
There is both energy storage in MWh, and a rate you can take it out at in MW. Both matter.

If the primary purpose is network stabilization, then the MW rating is more important. If the primary purpose is energy storage, then the MWh rating is more important.
WetEV
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GRA
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Tue Jun 04, 2019 3:17 pm

WetEV wrote:
GRA wrote:Note that utilities often list sites as so many (k/M/G/) Watts of storage, because they are concerned with meeting power demand, so it's not clear to me if the "1,000 MW" (i.e. 1 GW) number should be MWh or not.
There is both energy storage in MWh, and a rate you can take it out at in MW. Both matter.

If the primary purpose is network stabilization, then the MW rating is more important. If the primary purpose is energy storage, then the MWh rating is more important.
Of course, but I was trying to prevent the almost inevitable posts decrying the use of MW instead of MWh. Utilities list Watts instead of Watt-Hours for a reason, not because they don't know the difference. It could just be a typo, but the source says "Initially developing enough energy storage to completely serve the needs of 150,000 households for an entire year", which works out to an average of 6.67 kW draw/household for an entire year i.e. * 8,766 hours, * 150,000 households equals 877 TWh, if I haven't misplaced a decimal somewhere. That assumes a constant 1 GW draw and no replenishment over that period, so actual storage could be considerably less, and of course usage would vary widely during the day. The important thing is that they're talking about storage that can supply up to 1GW of power for a prolonged period of time, and do so economically (we'll have to see about that).

California has a requirement for utilities to have 1.3GW of storage by 2020, although these are for peaking/reliability rather than long term storage: https://www.energy.ca.gov/renewables/tr ... torage.pdf

Here's part of that, using batteries:
Storage will replace 3 California gas plants as PG&E nabs approval for world's largest batteries
https://www.utilitydive.com/news/storag ... rl/541870/
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 11071
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Tue Jun 04, 2019 5:19 pm

GCC:
Companies form H2Bus consortium to deploy 1,000 hydrogen fuel cell buses and infrastructure in Europe
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/0 ... h2bus.html
Everfuel, Wrightbus, Ballard Power Systems, Hexagon Composites, Nel Hydrogen and Ryse Hydrogen . . . are joining forces to form the H2Bus Consortium. The members are committed to deploying 1,000 hydrogen fuel cell electric buses, along with supporting infrastructure, in European cities at commercially competitive rates.

The partners says that this hydrogen fuel cell electric bus solution will be the most cost-effective truly zero-emission option available, with a single-decker bus price below €375,000 after funding, a hydrogen price between €5 and €7 per kilogram and a service cost of €0.30 per kilometer. . . .

Wrightbus will integrate Ballard’s 8th-generation heavy duty power module—FCmove—into H2Bus Consortium buses. FCmove products will be officially launched at the UITP Global Public Transport Summit, taking place 9-12 June in Stockholm, Sweden.

The first phase of the project, totalling 600 buses, is supported by €40 million from the EU’s Connecting Europe Facility (CEF). The funding will enable the deployment of 200 hydrogen fuel cell electric buses and supporting infrastructure in each of Denmark, Latvia and the UK by 2023. . . .
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

cwerdna
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:17 am

This was in the local news recently. The first story caused the result reported in the second.

'Building Shook Like Hell': Fire Extinguished After Explosion at Chemical Facility in Santa Clara
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/E ... 18081.html

Hydrogen supply pinch affects San Francisco fuel-cell drivers
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... ll-drivers

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Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:32 pm

Looks like the FCEV manufacturers are stepping up to cover the outage, which is good corporate behavior and smart PR, leading to loyal customers. I wish Nissan had shown similar voluntary behavior (i.e. not having to be dragged kicking and screaming) when the battery issues first surfaced.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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