Hydrogen and FCEVs discussion thread

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Zythryn said:
Slowly, and linearly. Dissapointing after 4 years almost all of the US growth is due to t single model.
When did they start the 3 years free fuel program? It will be interesting to see what they do as those leases end.
I find it encouraging that most see H2 FCVs for what they really are: a massive waste of resources and the most damaging to the environment of any vehicles on the roadways today (for the equivalent function).

Let H2 FCVs incubate for the time being in round-the-clock warehouse operations where they can provide their owners value. If they start to approach BEVs on the roadways, then they can (and will) see actual growth in that sector.
 
Same story as covered in my preceding post, but includes a graph showing cumulative sales over time by type:
Total Number Of Hydrogen Fuel Cell Cars In U.S. Barely Exceeds 6,500
https://insideevs.com/hydrogen-fuel-cell-cars-u-s-6500/

As expected, Clarity FCEV sales essentially flatlined after the introduction of the PHEV. Nexo is just starting to appear, and I expect what happens with that vehicle to determine whether or not there's any future for them (as private cars) in the U.S.

GCR:
Grove launches hydrogen fuel-cell car brand in China
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1122309_grove-launches-hydrogen-fuel-cell-car-brand-in-china

A new company called Grove Hydrogen Automotive Co. announced that it will focus on fuel-cell cars, starting with a four-door SUV that it plans to launch in China later this year. The company says it will reach mass production sometime next year. Grove is home to several former automotive executives from Volkswagen, Audi, Infiniti, and other established automakers.

Grove says the car will have up to 625 miles of range from its hydrogen tanks, which can be refueled in a "few minutes." The company says the car will be built with composite materials and use regenerative braking to maximize efficiency, which implies that it also includes some battery capacity that could be used to provide extra bursts of power beyond the fuel-cell's output.

The car is scheduled to debut at next month's Shanghai auto show.

Grove has plans to sell a line of hydrogen cars, not just a single model, and will set up "experience centers" similar to Tesla stores, in China. It plans to explore export markets in 2020, but did not specify where.

The car company was founded by the Institute for Geosciences and the Environment, which develops hydrogen from industrial wastes, giving it a more sustainable, less carbon-intensive footprint that most hydrogen produced in the U.S.

IGE plans to roll out hydrogen fueling infrastructure in "Tier 1" cities in China starting in 2020, Tier 2 cities in 2021, and then "aggressively" throughout all "significant" cities in China thereafter. They gave no indication what's considered a significant city. . . .
We'll see if they manage to accomplish any of this, or if they're just another Envia/Faraday Future.
 
GCC:
EDF launches subsidiary Hynamics to produce and to market low-carbon hydrogen
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/04/20190409-edf.html

According to a report released by McKinsey, hydrogen consumption will represent 18% of the world’s final energy demand in 2050. 95% of hydrogen is currently produced from fossil fuels. The process is very high in CO2 emissions: to produce 1 kg of hydrogen, 10 kg of CO2 is emitted.

Unlike this method, Hynamics has opted for water electrolysis to produce its hydrogen, a technology that does not emit very much CO2 at all, as long as the electricity used itself comes from low-carbon production methods.

Hynamics offers two different low-carbon hydrogen solutions:

  • For industrial clients, for whom hydrogen is a necessity (refinery, glassware, agri-food, chemistry etc.), Hynamics installs, runs and maintains hydrogen production plants, by investing in the necessary infrastructure;

    For mobility providers, both public and professional, Hynamics helps link up different areas with service stations to provide hydrogen to recharge fleets of commercial vehicles, like trains, buses, bin lorries, utility vehicles and means of waterway transport. These services constitute an additional asset for the Electric Mobility Plan announced by the Group in October 2018.

At the end of March 2019, Hynamics teams have identified and are working on some 40 target projects, in France as well as other European countries including Belgium, Germany and the United Kingdom. . . .

In 2018, EDF consolidated its interest in the emerging low-carbon hydrogen market by acquiring a 21.7% stake in McPhy, a manufacturer and marketer of electrolysers and a player committed to low-carbon hydrogen since its creation in 2008. By also signing an industrial, commercial and research partnership, the two companies aim to create a synergy between McPhy’s technological expertise and EDF’s knowledge of electrical systems and low-carbon electricity production.
 
GCC:
ULEMCo to introduce 50 kW hydrogen-fueled genset for urban environments
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/04/20190411-ulemco.html

UK-based ULEMCo plans to launch a hydrogen-fueled 50 kW (KVA) generator later this year. The zero emission genset is targeted for use in urban areas, where the impact of harmful emissions from non-road mobile machinery (NRMM) is increasingly being understood.

When running over an eight-hour construction shift, the 50 kW genset will use around 15-20 kg of hydrogen, depending on the average load. It will emit zero emissions from an air quality perspective, without any aftertreatment, and depending on the source of hydrogen, will save up to 640 g/kWh CO2 against a diesel-powered counterpart.

When tested under the Type D2 ISO 8178 generator set engine standard, it demonstrates class leading thermal efficiency from the engine of up to 45%. . . .

ULEMCo plans to have a production ready genset available in the Autumn, and to have a prototype available for potential customers to trial in the next few months.
Note, ICE genset, not a fuel cell.
 
GCC:
Hyundai Motor, Korea East-West Power and Deokyang to build 1 MW hydrogen fuel cell power facility using NEXO technology
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/04/20190413-nexo.html

. . . The 1 MW power facility, scheduled to break ground later this year in Ulsan, will consist of two container-type 500 kW generator modules, each loaded with multiple power modules from Hyundai’s flagship fuel cell vehicle NEXO.

The facility can generate an annual supply of 8,000 MWh, enough electricity to power approximately 2,200 households at 300 kWh per month, while emitting zero greenhouse gases or pollution.

The hydrogen used in the facility will be byproduct hydrogen brought from a nearby petrochemical complex through a pipe network, reducing costs and making use of local energy sources. . . .

EWP will be able to secure an increased share of renewables in its energy mix, while Deokyang will be a step closer to bringing down the price of hydrogen through increased trade volume and stable management of supply and demand. . . .
 
GCC:
China’s first hydrogen car sharing project launched; 10,000 Grove H2 cars in 2020-2021
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/04/20190417-grove.html

Chongqing Nan’an District government, Chongqing Panda Automobile Rental Company and Chongqing Geosciences Industry Technology Institute Co., Ltd. signed a three-party strategic cooperation agreement to launch a hydrogen car sharing project—the first of its kind in China.

Currently, domestic sharing cars are mainly electrical; no hydrogen cars have been applied in this field before.

According to the agreement, the first batch of 200 Grove hydrogen passenger cars will be available for renting. The demonstrative operation will verify its business and profit model in the sharing automobile industry, which will provide valuable experience for later large-scale operation in cities.

10,000 Grove hydrogen passengers cars will be put into 20 first- and second-tier cities in China between 2020-2021. In the future, AI, big data, cloud technology will also be applied to offer better services to the market.
 
GCC:
Grove Hydrogen Automotive and State Government of Minas Gerais Brazil announce hydrogen vehicle cooperation program
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/04/20190424-grove.html

. . . According to the cooperation, a joint team will be established to evaluate the entire hydrogen economy from hydrogen vehicle development, production and distribution. Developing hydrogen vehicles will create many opportunities for Brazilian companies to take part in the entire chain.

The program will begin immediately. The testing will start by the end of 2019 and the operation will start by the end of 2020.
 
Hello Leaf Drivers - If you are on this thread and you live in California, you may have considered getting a hydrogen fuel-cell vehicle (FCV) before you opted for a Leaf. We are a team of academic geographers and ethnographers who are studying people's decision-making processes regarding whether or not to get a FCV. We are interested in talking to people who seriously considered purchasing or leasing an FCV but decided AGAINST doing so (which is proving to be a tough demographic to find, so if this description fits you, we'd love to chat with you).

Interviews will take about 20 minutes and can be conducted by phone, Skype, or Google Hangouts. Participants will receive a $10 Amazon gift card as a small token of appreciation for their participation. If you are over 18 years of age and interested in participating, please contact my research assistant Oscar Lopez at [email protected] to schedule an interview. You can learn more about the study at http://www.public.asu.edu/~mikekuby/H2FCV_Adoption_Study/. Email, comment, or message us if you have any questions. Thanks, Leaf Drivers!!

Dr. Michael Kuby
Professor, Geographical Sciences and Urban Planning
Arizona State University
 
GCC:
Air Liquide and Houpu form JV to develop hydrogen station infrastructure in China
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/04/20190426-airliquide.html

. . . Air Liquide in China operates nearly 90 plants and employs more than 4,000 employees today. With a strong presence in the key coastal industrial areas, Air Liquide is now expanding into the center, south and west. Its main business activities include industrial and medical gas operations, Engineering & Construction (designing, manufacturing and installing air separation units/hydrogen facilities), as well as Innovation activities. . . .

Houpu is a Chinese listed company that provides clean energy refueling equipment and related services. More than 5,000 natural gas refilling equipment are supplied to more than 2,800 customers worldwide. In the field of natural gas and hydrogen energy refilling, Houpu’s capability covers the whole value chain including engineering, equipment research and manufacture, integration, installation and after-sales service.
 
GCC:
BP, Nouryon and Port of Rotterdam partner on green hydrogen study; 250 MW electrolyzer
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/04/20190429-bp.html

BP, Nouryon (formerly AkzoNobel Specialty Chemicals), and the Port of Rotterdam will collaborate to explore the opportunity of making green hydrogen via water electrolysis for BP’s refinery in Rotterdam, the Netherlands, which has the potential for significant reductions in CO2 emissions.

The refinery currently uses hydrogen made from hydrocarbons to desulfurize products. Replacing this entirely with green hydrogen produced from water using renewable energy could potentially result in a reduction of 350,000 tons of CO2 emissions per year based on current circumstances.

The parties have signed a memorandum of understanding to study the feasibility of a 250-megawatt water electrolysis facility to produce up to 45,000 tons of green hydrogen yearly using renewable energy. It would be the largest of its kind in Europe.

Nouryon would build and operate the facility based on its leadership position in sustainable electrochemistry. The Port of Rotterdam would facilitate local infrastructure and investigate options for further development of a green hydrogen hub in the area. The partners intend to take a final investment decision on the project in 2022. . . .
 
GCC:
ITM Power extends hydrogen fueling agreement with Shell in UK to 2024
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/05/20190511-itm.html

. . . The new agreement will run until 2024, and covers the refueling of all types of hydrogen vehicles; from passenger cars to commercial vehicles, including buses, trucks, trains and ships.

Currently ITM Power operates two hydrogen refueling stations (HRS) at Shell service stations at both Shell Cobham on the M25 and Shell Beaconsfield on the M40. Four further HRS are funded.

The HRS at Shell Gatwick is under construction and will be opened later this year; Shell Derby will also follow in 2019, with two further London stations also planned. The UK hydrogen refueling station network has been jointly funded by the UK’s Office for Low Emission Vehicles and the Fuel Cells and Hydrogen Joint Undertaking.
 
ABG:
Bosch to drastically reduce platinum use in future fuel cells
Toyota and Hyundai are also cutting down on use of the precious metal
https://www.autoblog.com/2019/05/13/hydrogen-fuel-cell-platinum-reduction/

Global automotive supplier Bosch expects platinum to play only a minor role in its new fuel cells, giving precious metal markets scant benefit even as the technology gains momentum for pollution-free transport.

According to Reuters calculations, Bosch would only need a tenth of the platinum used in current fuel cell vehicles.

Hopes of reviving demand and prices of platinum increasingly hinges on widespread uptake of fuel cells in vehicles, ships and trains to make up for dwindling amounts used in each device, analysts say.

The spot price of platinum has shed more than 40 percent in the last five years, burdened by persistent oversupply, before rebounding slightly in recent months. . . .

Privately-owned Bosch, which last month signed a deal with Powercell Sweden AB to mass produce fuel cells, said its fuel cell design was not finalized, but it expects them to use only as much platinum as a diesel catalytic converter.

A catalytic converter in a diesel passenger vehicle typically uses three to seven grams of platinum compared with around 30-60 grams currently needed for a fuel cell for the same vehicle, according to analysts. . . .

TOYOTA ALSO SLASHES PLATINUM

Bosch's fuel cell deal with Powercell, announced last month, was another signal that the technology is poised to be rolled out more widely as governments toughen emissions regulations.

China is leading the way, targeting 2 million fuel cell vehicles by 2030. . . .

The best selling fuel cell vehicle, Toyota's Mirai, is expected to cut platinum by two-thirds to around 10 grams per vehicle in its next version, down from 30 grams in the current model, according David Hart, director of E4tech consultancy, based in Lausanne.

"They (fuel cell makers) all have a pathway of using less platinum, which is fairly clear," Hart said.

Toyota Motor Corp declined to comment.

Hyundai Motor Co has cut the amount of platinum needed for the fuel cell stack in the latest edition of its NEXO, released last year, to 56 grams from 78 grams previously, a company spokesman told Reuters.

Hyundai plans to invest over 6 billion euros to make 700,000 fuel cell systems annually by 2030. . . .

"The heavy duty truck side is the biggest initial opportunity for fuel cells because they are very hard to electrify with batteries," said Mårten Wikforss, a consultant for Sweden's Powercell. . . .

If fuel cells catch on in ships and trains as well as road vehicles, platinum demand may get a boost despite the lower loadings due to the sheer numbers, some analysts said.

Global demand for platinum for all fuel cells from vehicles is forecast rise to 366,000 ounces by 2030 but to surge to 965,000 ounces when including other fuel cell and hydrogen uses, said Jonathan Butler, head of business development at Mitsubishi Corp.
 
GCC:
US, Canada, Japan, Netherlands, and EC launch new hydrogen initiative
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/06/20190601-h2.html

. . . The new hydrogen initiative will drive international collaboration on policies, programs and projects to accelerate the commercial deployment of hydrogen and fuel cell technologies across all sectors of the economy.

Drawing on the recommendations from the Hydrogen Energy Ministerial Meeting in 2018 in Japan, this cross-country collaboration will build on the successes of other global collaboration on hydrogen such as the Hydrogen Challenge under Mission Innovation, the ongoing work through the International Partnership for Hydrogen and Fuel Cells in the Economy and global analysis carried out through the International Energy Agency (IEA). . . .

The new Hydrogen Initiative will focus on how hydrogen can contribute to cleaner energy systems, while promoting sustainability, resiliency and energy security. Initial work carried out through the initiative will focus on three different areas:

    • Helping to ensure successful deployment of hydrogen within current industrial applications.

      Enabling deployment of hydrogen technologies in transport (e.g freight, mass transit, light-rail, marine).

      Exploring the role of hydrogen in meeting the energy needs of communities.
 
GCC:
World’s largest renewable energy storage project announced in Utah; grid-scale energy storage with renewable hydrogen production
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/06/20190603-utah.html

Mitsubishi Hitachi Power Systems (MHPS) and Magnum Development announced an initiative to launch the Advanced Clean Energy Storage (ACES) project in central Utah. The world’s largest project of its kind, the ACES initiative will develop 1,000 MW of 100% clean energy storage, thereby deploying technologies and strategies essential to a decarbonized future for the power grid of the Western United States. . . .

As a next step in decarbonization, MHPS has developed gas turbine technology that enables a mixture of renewable hydrogen and natural gas to produce power with even lower carbon emissions. The MHPS technology roadmap aims to use 100% renewable hydrogen as a fuel source, which will allow gas turbines to produce electricity with zero carbon emissions.

Magnum Development owns and controls the only known “Gulf Coast” style domal-quality salt formation in the western United States. With five salt caverns already in operation for liquid fuels storage, Magnum is continuing to develop Compressed Air Energy Storage and renewable hydrogen storage options. Strategically located adjacent to the Intermountain Power Project, the Magnum site is positioned to integrate seamlessly with the western US power grid utilizing existing infrastructure. . . .

Continued deployment of renewables will require that excess power be stored for later use. To serve the needs of the entire western United States, many gigawatt-hours of storage capacity are required.

Initially developing enough energy storage to completely serve the needs of 150,000 households for an entire year, the ACES initiative will deploy four types of clean energy storage at utility scale. These energy storage technologies include:

  • Renewable hydrogen
    Compressed Air Energy Storage
    Large scale flow batteries
    Solid oxide fuel cells

The ACES project will engineer, finance, construct, own, and operate facilities to be located in Millard County, Utah. Over the coming weeks and months, additional strategic and financial partners will be invited to participate.
Note that utilities often list sites as so many (k/M/G/) Watts of storage, because they are concerned with meeting power demand, so it's not clear to me if the "1,000 MW" (i.e. 1 GW) number should be MWh or not.
 
GRA said:
Note that utilities often list sites as so many (k/M/G/) Watts of storage, because they are concerned with meeting power demand, so it's not clear to me if the "1,000 MW" (i.e. 1 GW) number should be MWh or not.
There is both energy storage in MWh, and a rate you can take it out at in MW. Both matter.

If the primary purpose is network stabilization, then the MW rating is more important. If the primary purpose is energy storage, then the MWh rating is more important.
 
WetEV said:
GRA said:
Note that utilities often list sites as so many (k/M/G/) Watts of storage, because they are concerned with meeting power demand, so it's not clear to me if the "1,000 MW" (i.e. 1 GW) number should be MWh or not.
There is both energy storage in MWh, and a rate you can take it out at in MW. Both matter.

If the primary purpose is network stabilization, then the MW rating is more important. If the primary purpose is energy storage, then the MWh rating is more important.
Of course, but I was trying to prevent the almost inevitable posts decrying the use of MW instead of MWh. Utilities list Watts instead of Watt-Hours for a reason, not because they don't know the difference. It could just be a typo, but the source says "Initially developing enough energy storage to completely serve the needs of 150,000 households for an entire year", which works out to an average of 6.67 kW draw/household for an entire year i.e. * 8,766 hours, * 150,000 households equals 877 TWh, if I haven't misplaced a decimal somewhere. That assumes a constant 1 GW draw and no replenishment over that period, so actual storage could be considerably less, and of course usage would vary widely during the day. The important thing is that they're talking about storage that can supply up to 1GW of power for a prolonged period of time, and do so economically (we'll have to see about that).

California has a requirement for utilities to have 1.3GW of storage by 2020, although these are for peaking/reliability rather than long term storage: https://www.energy.ca.gov/renewables/tracking_progress/documents/energy_storage.pdf

Here's part of that, using batteries:
Storage will replace 3 California gas plants as PG&E nabs approval for world's largest batteries
https://www.utilitydive.com/news/st...-plants-as-pge-nabs-approval-for-worl/541870/
 
GCC:
Companies form H2Bus consortium to deploy 1,000 hydrogen fuel cell buses and infrastructure in Europe
https://www.greencarcongress.com/2019/06/20190604-h2bus.html

Everfuel, Wrightbus, Ballard Power Systems, Hexagon Composites, Nel Hydrogen and Ryse Hydrogen . . . are joining forces to form the H2Bus Consortium. The members are committed to deploying 1,000 hydrogen fuel cell electric buses, along with supporting infrastructure, in European cities at commercially competitive rates.

The partners says that this hydrogen fuel cell electric bus solution will be the most cost-effective truly zero-emission option available, with a single-decker bus price below €375,000 after funding, a hydrogen price between €5 and €7 per kilogram and a service cost of €0.30 per kilometer. . . .

Wrightbus will integrate Ballard’s 8th-generation heavy duty power module—FCmove—into H2Bus Consortium buses. FCmove products will be officially launched at the UITP Global Public Transport Summit, taking place 9-12 June in Stockholm, Sweden.

The first phase of the project, totalling 600 buses, is supported by €40 million from the EU’s Connecting Europe Facility (CEF). The funding will enable the deployment of 200 hydrogen fuel cell electric buses and supporting infrastructure in each of Denmark, Latvia and the UK by 2023. . . .
 
This was in the local news recently. The first story caused the result reported in the second.

'Building Shook Like Hell': Fire Extinguished After Explosion at Chemical Facility in Santa Clara
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Explosion-Reported-at-Industrial-Facility-in-Santa-Clara-510718081.html

Hydrogen supply pinch affects San Francisco fuel-cell drivers
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1123449_hydrogen-supply-pinch-affects-san-francisco-fuel-cell-drivers
 
Looks like the FCEV manufacturers are stepping up to cover the outage, which is good corporate behavior and smart PR, leading to loyal customers. I wish Nissan had shown similar voluntary behavior (i.e. not having to be dragged kicking and screaming) when the battery issues first surfaced.
 
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