2019 Leaf battery overheating

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ChozoGhost79 said:
I've only glanced over this thread, but I have a '19 LEAF plus 62 KWh, and multiple DC fast charges in a day have caused battery overheating in mine, with charge rates as low as 19 KW. Only my first DCFC charged close to the advertised rate. The rest were about 19-20 KW. This meant a 390 mile trip from Yuma, AZ to Ridgecrest, CA took me 11 hours.
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Thank you for your information which I consider very important. So the Pluses suffer from the same illness. I was going to ask for a Plus in replacement but in this case I won't bother anymore.

This is extremely disappointing for "the best selling EV".
 
LeftieBiker said:
That isn't a moderating response.
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I have two answers to that. First, I am primarily a forum participant here (although sometimes spam removal supersedes that). Second, I have promised other participants that I will respond to OE's misinformation so they don't have to read it all. I've already tried the gentler approach with OE. Now my patience is more worn. I'm not going to do things that other mods might do, like edit his posts or ban him, but he can expect to be called on posting what is essentially propaganda.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your patience. I will stick to my decision of ignoring his posts which has worked very well for me and I encourage others to do the same. He is clearly more than "a fan". Only a paid troll would go to such lengths to pollute a rational conversation.
 
metricus said:
ChozoGhost79 said:
I've only glanced over this thread, but I have a '19 LEAF plus 62 KWh, and multiple DC fast charges in a day have caused battery overheating in mine, with charge rates as low as 19 KW. Only my first DCFC charged close to the advertised rate. The rest were about 19-20 KW. This meant a 390 mile trip from Yuma, AZ to Ridgecrest, CA took me 11 hours.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your information which I consider very important. So the Pluses suffer from the same illness. I was going to ask for a Plus in replacement but in this case I won't bother anymore.

This is extremely disappointing for "the best selling EV".
Click to expand...

I wouldn't have even leased this one, had I known about this massive limitation. They gave it a much bigger battery, enough power to merge and pass with no problem, even at SoCal speeds, but hobbled it with no TMS on the battery. Glorified city car still. Not to mention I got a bill for a disposition fee for my old LEAF, despite taking delivery on a new one. I thought they waived that if you got a new car. (Off this topic I know)
 
metricus said:
Only a paid troll would go to such lengths to pollute a rational conversation.
Click to expand...
'Shill' is the most descriptive. A shill is not arguing to be annoying, but as a paid for service.
 
ChozoGhost79 said:
lorenfb said:
ChozoGhost79 said:
Done. Granted the petition is for earlier 2018 models, but mine has that issue and it's a 2019 Plus model.
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The present U.S. BMS firmware with reduced charging rates results in battery temps approaching 120-125 F for long charging
times. Those temperatures will increase battery degradation. If the BMS is re-flashed for increased battery charging rates,
the long term Leaf battery degradation will be further compounded. For those with leases, that problem is most likely of little
concern, but for those who purchased their Leaf, that potentially should be of a major concern. The battery temperature
problem is potentially more problematic in the U.S. versus Europe, given the difference in the average summer temperatures
and the longer typical inter city drives requiring more sequential charging.
Click to expand...

It's possible in the US market they may not implement this fix, for this reason.
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Agreed. The European "fix" does nothing to the overheating problem which is the main culprit here. Allowing for higher charging currents despite high bat temp will only make the matter worse resulting in more people stranded in turtle mode which will surely make headlines. Right now Nissan only has to deal with some customers pissed off about longer charging times which they can side-step by referring to the fine-print: longer times "may" occur depending on the temp. They don't mention however that this happens EVERYTIME one takes a long(er) trip.

I will not be surprised if this ends up in a class-action lawsuit.
 
ChozoGhost79 said:
I wouldn't have even leased this one, had I known about this massive limitation. They gave it a much bigger battery, enough power to merge and pass with no problem, even at SoCal speeds, but hobbled it with no TMS on the battery. Glorified city car still. Not to mention I got a bill for a disposition fee for my old LEAF, despite taking delivery on a new one. I thought they waived that if you got a new car. (Off this topic I know)
Click to expand...

Precisely my situation. I am happy my saleslady convinced me to go to a 2-year lease. Maybe she knew something....
 
SageBrush said:
metricus said:
Only a paid troll would go to such lengths to pollute a rational conversation.
Click to expand...
'Shill' is the most descriptive. A shill is not arguing to be annoying, but as a paid for service.
Click to expand...
Correct.

If at anytime it will be considered to ban him for this reason I am all for it.
 
metricus said:
SageBrush said:
metricus said:
Only a paid troll would go to such lengths to pollute a rational conversation.
Click to expand...
'Shill' is the most descriptive. A shill is not arguing to be annoying, but as a paid for service.
Click to expand...
Correct.

If at anytime it will be considered to ban him for this reason I am all for it.
Click to expand...
Banning him sounds pretty good to me too, since I would not feel obliged to waste time countering his posts. The *real* benefit though would be if someone could listen in to the subsequent conversation between him and Nissan corporate.
 
I was busy this past week and did not visit the forum. So here are some news that happened in the meantime:

1. I did send that letter (email) to the Service Manager on Monday. He is ignoring me even after a follow-up voicemail. Next move is to send a certified letter to Dealership management.

2. I found out the exact jumping temps of the gauge. As expected, since japan is a metric country these are round metric numbers:
As DaveInOleyWA already found there are 12 notches (0=cold 12=hot). The middle one is the 6th one.

Jump 5>6 happens when the sensor with LOWEST temp (min on LeafSpy) reaches 25C
Jump 6>7 happens when the sensor with LOWEST temp (min on LeafSpy) reaches 35C

NOTE-1: this is in the rising direction. All such gauges have a hysteresis which means that in the cooling direction (e.g. jump 6>5) the jump will happen at a lower temp. I don't have that number yet because it is harder to watch the gauge and LeafSpy while the car is cooling overnight.

NOTE-2: I would have expected that they link the gauge to the average temp. However this is not the case. Avg has no effect.

So if you look for further numbers I suggest switching to metric on LeafSpy.
I will do another trip on Monday to Newark airport and I will look for the exact numbers on the higher notches.
 
metricus said:
Jump 5>6 happens when the sensor with LOWEST temp (min on LeafSpy) reaches 25C
Jump 6>7 happens when the sensor with LOWEST temp (min on LeafSpy) reaches 35C
Click to expand...
Since the temperature dependent charging taper is meant to keep the battery degradation to within Nissan tolerance (aka, to minimize battery warranty costs,) it is amusing that they ignore the hottest cells.

Nissan corporate decision making at its finest.
 
metricus said:
SageBrush said:
metricus said:
Only a paid troll would go to such lengths to pollute a rational conversation.
Click to expand...
'Shill' is the most descriptive. A shill is not arguing to be annoying, but as a paid for service.
Click to expand...
Correct.

If at anytime it will be considered to ban him for this reason I am all for it.
Click to expand...

An unsubstantiated allegation is not a "reason" for banning someone.

I don't agree with all of his assertions or conclusions but he's usually civil and some of what he says makes sense. If you find what he writes annoys you it's easily fixed with the "add foe" button. I have a number of members on that list but OE isn't one of them.
 
SageBrush said:
Since the temperature dependent charging taper is meant to keep the battery degradation to within Nissan tolerance (aka, to minimize battery warranty costs,) it is amusing that they ignore the hottest cells.

Nissan corporate decision making at its finest.
Click to expand...

I was thinking of that too but then I realized that these are the temps when the gauge jumps. This does not mean that the charge power tapering process follows the same algorithm.

Frankly, I would expect the charge current to be dependent on the highest temp sensor. Remains to be seen. A different test needs to be done.

For now, I will collect gauge data.
 
One thing is clear: Nissan has used every tool possible to create the illusion that the battery temp is constant.
First, by using a gauge like display instead of digital readout which would have been much easier to produce.
Second, using an incremental gauge instead of a linear one.
Third, assigning larger temperature intervals for the middle increments compared to the the end ones.
 
As I mentioned I did another trip to Newark Airport.

This time it was at night, 22-24C temperatures, high humidity since it drizzled in spots.

Everything went very much like in the OP despite me driving extremely conservative, Eco mode, no E-pedal, Cruise, 100 km/h on the dot.

My first charge after 171 km at 100 km/h went at 35 kW. The second one, on the return trip, after another 180 km at 90 km/h went at 24 kW.

In all, I spent an extra one hour and half at chargers than I should have spent in a 50kW scenario. I also spent whatever extra time by not driving at the 70mph speed limit. My total travel time more than doubled which makes the EV savings and comfort simply not worth the effort. Screw this!

The only thing worth mentioning was that, thanks to LeafSpy, I could record a temperature decrease. During my first charge the temp went up to 41C so on the last 35 km leg to the airport I reduced the speed to 90 km/h. During this drive the temperature steadily decreased. I continued at 90 until the second charge on my return trip but it plateaued at 35C and never went lower than that. During the second charge it went up again and down again during driving.

So there is some heat loss during the drive but not nearly enough.

This confirms what many have said that one cannot count on DC charging this vehicle unless one is open for adventures and/or doesn't really have to stick to a schedule.

I for one have had enough of this exercise.
 
metricus said:
As I mentioned I did another trip to Newark Airport.

This time it was at night, 22-24C temperatures, high humidity since it drizzled in spots.

Everything went very much like in the OP despite me driving extremely conservative, Eco mode, no E-pedal, Cruise, 100 km/h on the dot.

My first charge after 171 km at 100 km/h went at 35 kW. The second one, on the return trip, after another 180 km at 90 km/h went at 24 kW.

In all, I spent an extra one hour and half at chargers than I should have spent in a 50kW scenario. I also spent whatever extra time by not driving at the 70mph speed limit. My total travel time more than doubled which makes the EV savings and comfort simply not worth the effort. Screw this!

The only thing worth mentioning was that, thanks to LeafSpy, I could record a temperature decrease. During my first charge the temp went up to 41C so on the last 35 km leg to the airport I reduced the speed to 90 km/h. During this drive the temperature steadily decreased. I continued at 90 until the second charge on my return trip but it plateaued at 35C and never went lower than that. During the second charge it went up again and down again during driving.

So there is some heat loss during the drive but not nearly enough.

This confirms what many have said that one cannot count on DC charging this vehicle unless one is open for adventures and/or doesn't really have to stick to a schedule.

I for one have had enough of this exercise.
Click to expand...

In 100+ SoCal desert temps, I don't expect any temperature decrease whatsoever.
 
Its only suppose to be 105F tomorrow. It's a dry heat.

I knew this going in and never plan to fast charge EXCEPT when I go down to the Nissan dealer in Palmdale.
So twice a year?

But if anyone around here planned to fast charge all the time (assuming one could find a charger, which there are none) yeah it would be too hot.

It all depends on how you plan to use the vehicle.
 
ChozoGhost79 said:
In 100+ SoCal desert temps, I don't expect any temperature decrease whatsoever.
Click to expand...

You will surely see an increase. Temp is completely out of control.

Frankly, it is a sad development for the Leaf. I expected they had worked out all the bugs by now.
 
danrjones said:
It all depends on how you plan to use the vehicle.
Click to expand...

My frustration is about what Nissan sells it to be.
Which is not.

Just like anything else you can make it work but it's not really there.
 
I knew what I was getting and what I could and couldn't do with it, but I totally understand your concern.

I'm pretty sure I knew more than the salesman (partly thanks to this this forum!). As an example he said the battery health indicator had been removed in the 2018 and 2019's. It hasn't, it was just moved to a different display page.

Like any other company, they want to make a sale.
 

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