Teslas blocking level 2 chargers?

I was at the Santa Monica Mall recently. I specifically stopped there for lunch on a long route in my PHEV so I could charge during lunch and not have to burn gas on that trip.

When I got there, I found that all 6 of the J1772's were taken, 3 by Teslas (1-S, 1-X, and 1-3). So I couldn't charge and had to burn gas. But, gee whiz, that garage has 10 Tesla chargers that the rest of the EV community can't use. Despite that, 3 Tesla owners chose to block non-Teslas from charging.

It's bad enough that 10 of 16 chargers are restricted to Teslas. But to have Teslas take half of the other slots seems pretty bad - perhaps qualifying for the type of shaming that is due for people who ICE a charging spot?

I thought briefly about complaining to mall management and requesting that they post those spots as for non-Tesla only since Tesla has Tesla only spots (and more of them too). But that would just give management a reason to dislike EVs and be less supportive of this infrastructure that desperately needs more support.

Is there anything we can do to nudge Tesla owners into being more responsible with their parking behavior? I do recognize that the J1772's are in a more convenient parking location than the Tesla chargers. But using these as premium parking spots when it deprives other EV drivers the ability to charge at all is not a very efficient allocation of scarce infrastructure. And efficient use of this infrastructure is going to be critical if we really want widespread EV adoption.

Perhaps a variation of the EV charging etiquette flyer I've seen elsewhere on this site but specific to Tesla not being parked in spots for other EVs when there are dedicated Tesla only spots? I kind of don't like the idea of taking pictures and shaming them online for effectively ICE'ing the spot. I prefer to be more diplomatic if I can.

Any thoughts? Am I off-base and there is a perfectly reasonable explanation for their behavior that I haven't considered yet?

You can leave notes, ranging from nice to nasty. Hopefully some of the offenders won't re-offend there.

You can shame them at https://www.facebook.com/groups/evholes/.

Not following. Were they charging or just blocking. If charging they have every right to. They are an EV.

I didn't say it was a legal issue, but an ethical/etiquette issue. Since it isn't posted as no-Teslas allowed, it is something they can do, but it is inappropriate. Hence why I am interested in nudging them into better behavior.

I didn't look close enough to assess if they were just parking and assumed they were charging. If they were just parking, then that is a whole new level of inappropriate - and possibly a legal issue IIRC just parking and not charging can result in a tow or at least a ticket now.

Whoops. I read too quickly (esp. given that you used the word "blocking" in the title) and assumed they were EV holes, blocking EV spots w/o actively charging.

Side note: The joke amongst some of us Nor Cal folks w/short range EVs is that Tesla drivers using public (free) charging are “always” 200 miles from home.

I would have gone to the mall security office straight away. Nothing immediate may come of it but they need to know when a customer is unhappy. I see this as probably an unauthorized protest and would be taken very seriously.

Please post the response you get next time.

I haven't been to that mall, but is it possible that the Level 2 EVSE were free to use and the Teslas (Model 3) might have had to pay at the Tesla superchargers? That changes the situation a bit...

If they were charging, they have a right to charge. End of story. Claiming you're more entitled isn't going to get you far with most people.

If it's free charging, then that is the root problem. Even a nominal fee will discourage the freebie-seekers and encourage behavior to be more like what you're looking for. I.e., only plug in if you actually need it.

The amusing thing here is that PHEVs are often considered the Scourge of EV charging, taking precious range away from sub-100 miles BEVs just to get more miles per gallon.

Nubo said:

If they were charging, they have a right to charge. End of story. Claiming you're more entitled isn't going to get you far with most people.

Click to expand...

Totally agree! My experience in many cases is that they're not even plugged-in or the EVSE is in the off mode.

By "blocked" you mean they were at the Level 2 EVSEs and not using them? Or were they charging?


And you say "that garage has 10 Tesla chargers ", meaning there is a 10 stall SuperCharger at that mall. Did you happen to notice if all those were in use, too?

My most vivid memory like this was when I took my LEAF into Boston and went to a garage with 2 EVSEs. Those were blocked by a pair of Plug-in Priuses who were both already done charging. 2 hours later when I left, both of them were still occupying the EVSEs. I should have written a thread "PHEVs blocking level 2 chargers?"

(and in that case, they *were* blocking the EVSEs as they were no longer charging)

jlv said:

My most vivid memory like this was when I took my LEAF into Boston and went to a garage with 2 EVSEs. Those were blocked by a pair of Plug-in Priuses who were both already done charging. 2 hours later when I left, both of them were still occupying the EVSEs. I should have written a thread "PHEVs blocking level 2 chargers?"

(and in that case, they *were* blocking the EVSEs as they were no longer charging)

Click to expand...

And that too is a problem and very annoying. Some sort of mall ticketing should occur if the vehicle is not charging or has completed.

lorenfb said:

Nubo said:

If they were charging, they have a right to charge. End of story. Claiming you're more entitled isn't going to get you far with most people.

Click to expand...

Totally agree! My experience in many cases is that they're not even plugged-in or the EVSE is in the off mode.

Click to expand...

OP says 3 vehicles were blocking 6 spaces. I find it hard to believe they were there to charge. Even if they were charging... all 3 blocking 2 spaces each sounds like a coordinated effort. Talk to security. (I work for a mall and in my area they would be "relocated" shortly)

Of course they have a right to charge there but in my opinion it is poor form unless they have no home charging available. I would never charge my Tesla at an L2 public charger unless in dire need. This is from a former 6 year Leaf owner and current 2 year Tesla model S owner. The only public charging I do in my Tesla is at superchargers when I need the charge in order to complete my trip (total of less than 10 times over two years). Let the shorter range BEV and PHEV have those chargers!

smkettner said:

OP says 3 vehicles were blocking 6 spaces. I find it hard to believe they were there to charge. Even if they were charging... all 3 blocking 2 spaces each sounds like a coordinated effort.

Click to expand...

OP says:

I found that all 6 of the J1772's were taken, 3 by Teslas (1-S, 1-X, and 1-3) ... to have Teslas take half of the other slots

Click to expand...

E.g,. 6 cars were charging at 6 EVSEs. The OP is unhappy that half were in use by Tesla's, apparently charging, but calls that "blocking".

Stoaty said:

Of course they have a right to charge there but in my opinion it is poor form unless they have no home charging available. I would never charge my Tesla at an L2 public charger unless in dire need. This is from a former 6 year Leaf owner and current 2 year Tesla model S owner. The only public charging I do in my Tesla is at superchargers when I need the charge in order to complete my trip (total of less than 10 times over two years). Let the shorter range BEV and PHEV have those chargers!

Click to expand...

I reckon most drivers would exhibit that etiquette. But some folks can't resist FREE whether they need it or not. The corrective doesn't lie in shaming. A simple change in policy to require payment will work wonders.

jlv said:

smkettner said:

OP says 3 vehicles were blocking 6 spaces. I find it hard to believe they were there to charge. Even if they were charging... all 3 blocking 2 spaces each sounds like a coordinated effort.

Click to expand...

OP says:

I found that all 6 of the J1772's were taken, 3 by Teslas (1-S, 1-X, and 1-3) ... to have Teslas take half of the other slots

Click to expand...

E.g,. 6 cars were charging at 6 EVSEs. The OP is unhappy that half were in use by Tesla's, apparently charging, but calls that "blocking".

Click to expand...

Maybe I mis-read the statement. Tesla is an EV and has the same right to charge as any plug-in vehicle. No issue here.

Ok, what I thought was a pretty clear post has somehow been misread by multiple people. So here are a few clarifications:

1. There were 3 Teslas taking 3 of the 6 slots of level 2 chargers, not 3 blocking all 6 spots. The concern is that Teslas have now claimed 13 of the 16 available slots despite being a minority of the plug-ins on the road.
2. At no point did I state they weren't eligible to charge there. It is a matter of ethics/etiquette/efficient allocation of scarce resources. Hence why I didn't propose having them towed or ticketed. Though it is feasible to request management to designate them as non-Tesla since they put in 10 that are Tesla only, so they clearly can decide which brand EV can use which spot. My inquiry was about how to nudge Tesla owners into behaving better. While Model 3 sales are closing the gap, non-Tesla EVs on the road still outnumber Teslas (at least as of last couple times I looked at the sales numbers). Yet they get 10 spots reserved for them while the rest of us have to scramble for 6, and then Tesla owners take half of those. This is very poor allocation of resources.
3. I assumed they were legitimately charging and didn't suspect them of actual ill-will by 'parking without charging'. I therefore, did not inspect to verify that aspect.
4. I am aware that the Tesla spots are not as conveniently located. Due to that and my schedule, I didn't work my way over to the Tesla spots to see if those were already occupied. If I did and found that there were at least 3 spots open there, I'd have been really ticked. But as I didn't get there, I don't know on that point. My irritation is that as currently set, Tesla's which are a minority of the plug-in cars, get their pick of 16 spots where the rest of us get 6 and that is if the Tesla owner's don't hog them first. And yes, people can have a right to use it and still be rather hoggish and immoral or at least unaware/inconsiderate - this isn't a legal issue, but an ethical/courtesy one. At level 2, it could take a really long time to charge Tesla sized batteries, thus blocking that resource if they don't mind paying for parking past 90 minutes.

The free aspect could be a valid explanation for the conduct. I know the level 2 charging is free - you only pay for the parking, and that is free for the 1st 90 minutes. I don't know if there is a charge for using the Tesla spots. If there is, then I think that is a very valid speculation as to what is driving this behavior. In which case, the mentioned adjustments to pricing structure would likely be best solution if mall management isn't interested in designating the level 2 as non-Tesla. I agree that 'free' is a powerful incentive and can draw considerable lack of consideration even from those wealthy enough for an S or X model. Also the more convenient location of the level 2 versus the Tesla chargers fits in the same category - if an inconsiderate person can get away with it which under present rules they can, then they likely will go for the more convenient spot.

Looking at the #evhole site someone pointed to, I see that hogging charging spots is quite an annoyance in the plug-in community. And as both a BEV and PHEV driver, I've personally avoided charging when it wasn't needed to avoid gas use in order to preserve availability for BEVs that might need it to complete their trip. I've been in the situation of following my Leaf's guidance to a pair of chargers to find one occupied by a Volt and the other by a Tesla and had to slowly crawl to the next nearest one to charge. So I try not to take the last open spot and limit my time there to brief periods. But that is me deciding to live to a certain standard of conduct as opposed to taking every last advantage I can legally get away with. From what I've seen at #evhole, this approach appears to be declining along with many other elements of modern society.

I'm thinking an appropriate nudge is to assume the person is unaware of the etiquette aspects and the limited infrastructure and perhaps leave a note. But I think I'd want to be more diplomatic than the notes at #evhole. Those who are truly unaware might change their behavior. Those who don't care, won't.

DarthPuppy said:

...The concern is that Teslas have now claimed 13 of the 16 available slots despite being a minority of the plug-ins on the road. ..

Click to expand...

I agree with some of your concerns, but not this one. An EV driver of any make shouldn't be expected to view things through such a representational lens. It's just them and their car, not about what percentage of slots are being used by their "tribe" vs their population stats.