GRA
Posts: 11211
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Illinois Insanity

Tue Jun 11, 2019 7:06 pm

GCR:
Illinois drops proposed $1,000 EV registration fee to $248
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/11 ... fee-to-248
. . . the legislature imposed a new registration fee of $248 on electric cars as part of a sweeping measure to build income for the state's highway funds.

The new fees may still come as a shock to electric-car owners, who previously paid just $17.50 before, while other drivers paid $98. Instead of paying less, electric-car drivers now pay more.

The measure also raises registration fees on gas cars to $148, and more significantly doubles the state's gas tax to 38 cents per gallon. . . .

It's unclear whether the $1,000 fee for EVs, which seemed a punitive sum designed to discourage electric-car sales, was ever serious or if it were intended to lessen the burn from the extra $100 fee now levied on EVs. In any case, Illinois now joins North Dakota, Washington state, and others in charging EVs more up front.
Now this makes a lot more sense. While I think the most equitable solution is to go to a weight-based mileage fee, this will work and is a lot less hassle.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Illinois Insanity

Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:58 am

No longer targeting EVs but still brain dead. A rational tax would recognize the outsized effect of tyre load on road wear and shift most of the burden to its source: trucks
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GRA
Posts: 11211
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Illinois Insanity

Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:20 pm

SageBrush wrote:No longer targeting EVs but still brain dead. A rational tax would recognize the outsized effect of tyre load on road wear and shift most of the burden to its source: trucks
True, but then everyone would wind up paying more for everything they bought, as opposed to not doing so and mostly ignoring the road maintenance issues, as we've been doing. And of course that would also penalize BEV trucks, if they based the fees on empty rather than gross weight.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Illinois Insanity

Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:34 pm

GRA wrote:
SageBrush wrote:No longer targeting EVs but still brain dead. A rational tax would recognize the outsized effect of tyre load on road wear and shift most of the burden to its source: trucks
True, but then everyone would wind up paying more for everything they bought, as opposed to not doing so and mostly ignoring the road maintenance issues, as we've been doing. And of course that would also penalize BEV trucks, if they based the fees on empty rather than gross weight.
It is not a good idea to externalize costs. Not with pollution, not with AGW, and not with trucks.

When the true cost of truck use shows up in the price of goods people will make choices. They might buy local. Trucks might add axles and wheels. Trains may become price competitive. The market will (eventually) respond efficiently.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GRA
Posts: 11211
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Illinois Insanity

Wed Jun 12, 2019 4:42 pm

SageBrush wrote:
GRA wrote:
SageBrush wrote:No longer targeting EVs but still brain dead. A rational tax would recognize the outsized effect of tyre load on road wear and shift most of the burden to its source: trucks
True, but then everyone would wind up paying more for everything they bought, as opposed to not doing so and mostly ignoring the road maintenance issues, as we've been doing. And of course that would also penalize BEV trucks, if they based the fees on empty rather than gross weight.
It is not a good idea to externalize costs. Not with pollution, not with AGW, and not with trucks.

When the true cost of truck use shows up in the price of goods people will make choices. They might buy local. Trucks might add axles and wheels. Trains may become price competitive. The market will (eventually) respond efficiently.
The market will only respond efficiently if the public wants it to, and so far there's little evidence for that. As for trains, the issue isn't whether they're price competitive (for long runs; for shorter runs trucks are cheaper), it's trying to be time-competitive that hurts them.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

rmay635703
Posts: 536
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:43 pm

Re: Illinois Insanity

Wed Jun 12, 2019 5:28 pm

I’ve been noticing more owners posting comments like this lately

Image

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Illinois Insanity

Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:03 pm

GRA wrote:
SageBrush wrote: It is not a good idea to externalize costs. Not with pollution, not with AGW, and not with trucks.

When the true cost of truck use shows up in the price of goods people will make choices. They might buy local. Trucks might add axles and wheels. Trains may become price competitive. The market will (eventually) respond efficiently.
The market will only respond efficiently if the public wants it to, and so far there's little evidence for that.
If nothing else, you can count on Merkins to seek out the lowest price. If often means shoddy goods like a Nissan car or a GM ignition switch or a flight of industry to China and a Walmart everywhere but it does drive market efficiency to insane levels.

'Business' is cut-throat in America. If you do not see that you should get out a bit more.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GRA
Posts: 11211
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Illinois Insanity

Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:05 pm

SageBrush wrote:
GRA wrote:
SageBrush wrote: It is not a good idea to externalize costs. Not with pollution, not with AGW, and not with trucks.

When the true cost of truck use shows up in the price of goods people will make choices. They might buy local. Trucks might add axles and wheels. Trains may become price competitive. The market will (eventually) respond efficiently.
The market will only respond efficiently if the public wants it to, and so far there's little evidence for that.
If nothing else, you can count on Merkins to seek out the lowest price. If often means shoddy goods like a Nissan car or a GM ignition switch or a flight of industry to China and a Walmart everywhere but it does drive market efficiency to insane levels.

'Business' is cut-throat in America. If you do not see that you should get out a bit more.
That was my point.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Illinois Insanity

Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:19 pm

And mine too.
When truckers are paying their currently externalized costs, transportation will seek solutions. It might be less use of trucks, but my guess is more axles and more wheels. It will only happen when costs are not swept under the carpet.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GRA
Posts: 11211
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Illinois Insanity

Thu Jun 13, 2019 4:36 pm

SageBrush wrote:And mine too.
When truckers are paying their currently externalized costs, transportation will seek solutions. It might be less use of trucks, but my guess is more axles and more wheels. It will only happen when costs are not swept under the carpet.
More axles and wheels can help with axle weight, but then you get into gross weight limits on bridges and overpasses, which would still require you to limit the max. gross, thus reducing the payload and raising the cost of shipping (not to mention increasing the cost of trailers, further boosting the shipping cost). Assuming that politicians can ever be convinced to raise weight-based fees to make trucks pay their full share, I suspect that won't occur until we see a large % of autonomous long-haul trucks in the fleet. That way, the companies can offset the higher road fees by eliminating the cost of drivers, and the weight/space dedicated to them.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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