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^^^
Maybe. I only plan to use paid public charging if I need to. I likely wouldn't want to pull down much paid juice for "fun", esp. if not needed or if more expensive than charging at home.

I still have yet to pay a single cent for any public or workplace charging.

Electrify America's app shows 2 "coming soon" sites near where typically go and one not that far from work. The 62.5 kW ChargePoint DC FC that JeffN used to film his video (https://electricrevs.com/2018/07/17/watch-a-bolt-ev-at-a-chargepoint-express-250-charge-at-up-to-55-kw/) is actually not that out of the way for me.

Kinda OT, I watched https://insideevs.com/news/341527/weberauto-examines-the-chevy-bolt-evs-battery-coolant-system/ (WeberAuto Examines The Chevy Bolt EV's Battery Coolant System) last night at high speed. Was interesting. He actually looks at the 3 coolant loops (electronics, battery and cabin heater) but didn't go into cooling plates and all inside the pack, which is another video.

It looks like my battery thermal management ran today for awhile after charging was done at work. I set my charge limiter to 80% and normally, if set to 95% or lower, once it hits the level, the power level I see on ChargePoint abruptly drops to 0 from about 6 kW (208 volts at work). Today, for the first time, I saw a draw of ~1.5 kW for 20 minutes then the power level dropped to 1 kW for the next 5 minutes, before dropping to 0. It was a crazy hot day today, so it was probably at least 85 to 95 F in the parking structure at work at that time.

OT: I'm kinda watching the video at https://youtu.be/pby9JMmYC78 at 1.25x playback speed where News Coloumb decides (for the heck of it) to make a 500 road trip in his Bolt intentionally limiting his DC FC sessions to 15 minutes, to show how much infrastructure there is in CA and how much redundancy there is. He started somewhere in So Cal (I think that's where he lives) and ended up in Sacramento. At 2:36, I see a Newhall Ranch Rd. sign (in Valencia, CA). Seems like power levels are still pretty high and he's adding 10 to 13 kWh per each 15 minute session, depending on charger "strength". At 12:10, you can see a 43.528 kW charge rate when he ended.

I just noticed his Bolt is at 91K miles. I don't recall when he bought his but Bolt didn't ship until mid-Dec 2016.
 
IEVS:
Deep Discounts On Chevy Bolt - Up To $11,500 Off MSRP
https://insideevs.com/features/354296/deep-discounts-on-chevy-bolt/

Chevrolet didn't change the $36,620 MSRP of the Chevrolet Bolt EV in April when the eligible federal tax credit decreased from $7,500 to $3,750, but it's doesn't mean that you can't buy it way cheaper.

According to input from our reader, the discounts from MSRP now go beyond $8,000 or $9,000 to as much as $10,500 in the case of the base LT trim and $11,500 in the case of the higher trim Premier.

It would lower the effective price:

  • Bolt EV LT: from $37,495 (with $875 D&H) to $26,995 and $23,245 after deducting federal tax credit.
    Bolt EV Premier: from $41,895 (with $875 D&H) to $30,395 and $26,645 after deducting federal tax credit.

The other option is 0% APR for up to 72 months. . . .
 
Thanks to a thread I stumbled across over at a Bolt forum, I came across these interesting DC FCing graphs:
https://www.chevybolt.org/forum/82-charging-batteries/32809-best-charging-curve-i-ve-seen-yet-100kw-dcfc.html

He links to his blog entry at http://tool-box.info/blog/archives/2783-Bolt-EV-under-ideal-charging-conditions.html.

Looks like the TMS kicked in once battery temps got to 34 C (93.2 F) and they soon began dropping...
 
Interesting graphs. If I'm reading them correctly, it took 1:05 to go from 10% -> 80% SoC, and then 0:50 to go from 80 -> 100% SoC. Not my idea of a quick charge, although obviously better than L2.
 
^^^
Obviously, given sufficient quick chargers on your route, it's best to run to a fairly low SoC and stop charging once you feel charging is too slow (say at the 55% mark or a bit below 70%) then move on. On a road trip, it's silly to go to 100% unless there isn't another high powered DC FC within range, esp. if you're being charged by time.

If the DC FC doesn't show you the rate (some don't), you can always see charging rate on the right side of the dash if you power it up while charging (both AC and DC). It's the same numbers and UI as the power consumption/regen indicator when driving.
 
+1. It is really only my desire to have "about" two hours of driving time (~ 100 miles) when I leave a station anyway. With the knee on my 40 around 60-63%, I rarely charge past 30 KW on the first stint, 25 on future stints. In all my trips, I find personal needs override the mornings more often than what the car needs. Coffee habit, no doubt.

But a 40 kwh pack is just short of that goal. It works for anything under 250 miles if starting with a full charge but that generally leaves me needing to stop while still around 50% SOC which is not ideal. So leaving home less than full sounds a bit counterintuitive but I do this frequently and it works well. Right now, I have a 30 min charge limit for all but Webasto so that definitely plays a part. Other than meals, most of my stops only go 20ish mins anyway.
 
cwerdna said:
^^^
Obviously, given sufficient quick chargers on your route, it's best to run to a fairly low SoC and stop charging once you feel charging is too slow (say at the 55% mark or a bit below 70%) then move on. On a road trip, it's silly to go to 100% unless there isn't another high powered DC FC within range, esp. if you're being charged by time.

If the DC FC doesn't show you the rate (some don't), you can always see charging rate on the right side of the dash if you power it up while charging (both AC and DC). It's the same numbers and UI as the power consumption/regen indicator when driving.
For anyone trying to take serious road trips, being limited to any % below 80% is simply ridiculous. After all, the Bolt only has a Hwy EPA range of 217 miles, so 80% of that is 173.6, minus 30 miles reserve is 143.6, minus allowances for conditions etc. So, you're talking about a maximum of say 120-140 miles in two hours (or less, given speeds in the west), followed by about an hour of charging in order to repeat it. That's an average of under 50 mph.

Of course, assuming you leave from home you can start at 90% if you want to be good to your battery, or 100% if you don't care and go a bit farther the first leg, but you (or at least I) am still forced to stop for much longer than I have any desire to do for a weekend, let alone a week-long trip. Not having a sack of coffee beans on my back, and with my prostate and bladder in good shape I don't need to stop that often, and 4-5 hours until needing to stop is the norm for me. I may stop at shorter intervals, often to fill up with cheaper gas, but that's optional and takes just a fraction of the time. To me, anything over 30 minutes (<15 desired) to 80% is unacceptable, unless/until I can go for four hours with a reserve at Hwy speeds in between QCs.
 
LeftieBiker said:
There is no evidence that starting a trip with 100% charge is detrimental to the battery, provided that charging has just ended.
Are you saying that specifically in relation to the Bolt, or BEVs generally? Here's what may be the highest mileage BEV in the world, a Model S used for an LA-Las Vegas shuttle:
The first battery pack replacement happened after 194,000 miles. At that time, the battery pack energy capacity degradation was at ~6%, which is reasonable, but Tesla found a problem due to Tesloop’s frequent Supercharging.

Here’s the reason Tesla gave for the battery replacement:

Found internal imbalance in HV battery due to consistent supercharging to 100% from a low state of charge (SOC) without any rest periods in between. HV battery has been approved to be replaced. Also recommend that customer does not Supercharge on a regular basis and does not charge to 100% on a regular basis. We also recommend that the customer use scheduled charging to start charge 3 hours after end of drive at low SOC.

Tesloop says that it was supercharging the car multiple times a day and at 95 to 100% state-of-charge – two things that Tesla doesn’t recommend for the health of the battery pack. . . .
That indicates that starting a trip (leg) immediately after charging to 100% is in fact not good for the battery. I realize that you're talking about the beginning of a trip rather than multiple charges to that level, but it does specifically say that Tesla doesn't recommend charging regularly to 100%. I don't know of any BEV manufacturer that does say it's okay (unless they've seriously over-sized the battery and limited usable capacity) .
 
The not charging to 100% appears to be something that Tesla threw in for good measure. The primary culprit there was "supercharging" hot packs, not charging to 100% before a trip. The same thing would apply to QCing a Leaf with a hot pack right before a trip. The general rules for preserving lithium batteries apply to Leafs, Teslas, Bolts, etc.
 
The charge to 100% debate has to be "fully" realized. There is a time element that is included. Yes, its "always" bad to charge to 100%, period. But that bad is mitigated when its time at 100% is short. We ALL have bad eating habits but we survive because we do it in moderation (or die)

My vacation just completed last night is a perfect example. If I lived and ate the way I did over the past week, I would be dead in a year or two, tops. But I don't and TBH, my job is likely what keeps me alive. :)


So its a balancing act but an easy one. If you are going on a trip and your first leg can be a longer one, then charge to 100%. The small hit to your pack is fine. Just don't make a habit of it. I have tried this on my 40 and found that the car easily outlasted me. This resulted in very short charging stints while I took care of personal needs. Once, I stopped at 65% due to a "coffee issue" Not sure it worked better and I "know" it won't when I have to start paying for charges.

So I left home with 60% one time and stretched my first stop out (almost a disaster) so I could get a good 30 min QC. Unfortunately the bathroom I had planned to used was closed and luckily I was able to make it to another a block away. It was a close call!
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
So why did Nissan take out the 80% charge limit? I thought they found that only ever going to 80% caused other priming issues.
Probably this:
https://insideevs.com/news/317213/2013-nissan-leaf-rated-at-75-miles-but-84-miles-using-the-outgoing-2012-epa-ratings-system/
https://insideevs.com/news/320736/2014-nissan-leaf-mostly-unchanged-as-range-technically-moves-up-to-84-miles/

If you look at other sub-100 mile EVs around model year '14, you'd see that 75 miles doesn't look that competitive but 84 looks a lot better. Examples: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=34699&id=34130&id=34392&id=33640.

Probably 95+% of the people shopping for a sub-100 mile EV back then wouldn't know the above backstory but would see 75 miles vs. the others if they looked at the above .gov site, Monroney stickers, car shopping sites, automakers' product pages, etc.

Most other BEVs models back then (and still?) don't provide any sort of charge % limiter. Tesla has for ages and we wonder why they don't get bitten by the stupid 80%/100% averaging rule or something like it.
 
cwerdna said:
DougWantsALeaf said:
So why did Nissan take out the 80% charge limit? I thought they found that only ever going to 80% caused other priming issues.
Probably this:
https://insideevs.com/news/317213/2013-nissan-leaf-rated-at-75-miles-but-84-miles-using-the-outgoing-2012-epa-ratings-system/
https://insideevs.com/news/320736/2014-nissan-leaf-mostly-unchanged-as-range-technically-moves-up-to-84-miles/

If you look at other sub-100 mile EVs around model year '14, you'd see that 75 miles doesn't look that competitive but 84 looks a lot better. Examples: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=34699&id=34130&id=34392&id=33640.

Probably 95+% of the people shopping for a sub-100 mile EV back then wouldn't know the above backstory but would see 75 miles vs. the others if they looked at the above .gov site, Monroney stickers, car shopping sites, automakers' product pages, etc.

Most other BEVs models back then (and still?) don't provide any sort of charge % limiter. Tesla has for ages and we wonder why they don't get bitten by the stupid 80%/100% averaging rule or something like it.
They didn't get bitten because they didn't include a sentence in the owner's manual (as Nissan did) specifically calling 80% "long-life" mode. The RAV4's EPA range also got penalized by this. Chevy calls the 90% charge limiter "Hilltop Reserve mode", with AFAIA no reference to any battery life-extension benefit.

Of course, there are workarounds for the Bolt (and others) to choose pretty much any max charge range you want, in the Bolt's case from 40% up: http://www.mychevybolt.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5811
 
^^^
And, in '19 Bolt, hill top reserve is gone and replaced by a limiter that lets you select 40 to 100%, in 5% increments. There still is the priority charge to 40% thingy but I've never used that.
 
Thanks to an FB post, I learned of the changes coming (not many) to the Canadian 2020 Bolt: https://www.gmfleetorderguide.com/NASApp/domestic/proddesc.jsp?year=2020&butID=1&regionID=14&divisionID=1&vehicleID=21892&type=0. Unknown if the US changes will be the same/similar.
 
From that link:

Chevrolet Truck Bolt EV

Deletions

(G9A) Green Mist Metallic exterior colour
(GKO) Shock exterior colour

New Features

(GHC) Oasis Blue exterior colour
(GLL) Cayenne Orange Metallic exterior colour (additional charge)
(RIA) All-weather floor liner, LPO

Changes

(AVJ) Keyless Open on front doors replaces (ATH) Keyless Open on all 4 doors; The passive entry system can still be programmed to unlock all doors at once with one press or with two presses of the front door buttons
(UVB) HD Rear Vision Camera replaces (UVC) Rear Vision Camera
(UV2) HD Surround Vision replaces (UVH) Surround Vision
(TL7) High gloss Black grille replaces (TUR) Dark Silver grille and (TUS) Black grille
(UHY) Low Speed Forward Automatic Braking is now called Automatic Emergency Braking
 
^^^
Yep. The keyless entry downgrade seems like a way to cut costs. My Bolt has lock/unlock buttons on the 4 door handles whereas it's only on 2 of them on my '13 Leaf. (During Gen 3 Prius, you could get 1-door (standard) or 3-door SKS (optional). Gen 2 Prius had either NO SKS or 3-door SKS (2 front doors + hatch.))

It's good that they'll be upgrading the cameras. Bolt Surround Vision image quality is awful compared to my '13 Leaf.

I'm not surprised about shock green. It's not a color I'd want and those might've languished at dealers.

Side note: I've seen a few reports on Bolt forums and Bolt FB groups of shattered front cameras for Surround Vision probably because GM didn't put them in a very good spot (front of the bumper w/the entire camera lens/bubble facing forward). I can't recall any report of shattered front cameras on Leafs w/Around View Monitor, which has been available since model year '13 as part of the premium package for MY '13 to '17.

Yesterday I finally had time to buy some plexiglass and drill two hills and mounted it using my front plate screws: https://www.chevybolt.org/forum/515-diy-how/33179-protecting-front-camera-premier-trims-w-surround-vision-road-debris-damage.html.

The front camera is $125+ for the part vs my under $5 piece of acrylic. We'll see if my protection holds up or has bad side effects (e.g. causing probs w/the front plate bracket or a big efficiency hit).
 
Discounting has gotten better on Bolt in the Bay Area but not quite as good as before.

https://www.chevroletoffremont.com/VehicleSearchResults?search=new&make=Chevrolet&model=Bolt%20EV&sort=salePrice%7Casc seems to be showing $9.5K off MSRP on LTs and I saw about $10.5K MSRP on Premiers.
https://www.concordchevrolet.com/VehicleSearchResults?make=Chevrolet&model=Bolt%20EV&year=2019&sort=salePrice%7Casc&search=new is showing $11K off MSRP on both trims, it seems.
 
https://www.chevroletoffremont.com/VehicleSearchResults?search=new&year=2019&make=Chevrolet&model=Bolt%20EV&sort=salePrice%7Casc decided to discount 2 base Bolt LT’s with no options (not even DC FC inlet) a bit more off than the others (about $11.5K off), so they're openly advertised at just under $26K. The rest of the LT’s aren’t as heavily discounted. My guess is that it’s a teaser to try to get you there to upsell you to a more expensive/more well-equipped car.

I took a peek at Premiers and those are almost $10.5K off, starting at $32,179.

Keep in mind Federal tax credit on GM EVs/PHEVs is now only $3750.
 
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