Leaf and heat

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I think right now they all have advantages and disadvantages.

The Leaf (maybe not the plus) can be had for a lot less money, and for an in town car only, it does quite well, even in the heat (so far), its a hatchback with good cargo space, decent warranty, and cheap to insure. I even think it looks nice.

But its not so good at road trips, fast charging in hot climates is a real issue, and may (probably does) have battery degradation issues in hot areas.

A Tesla 3 gets you into a entry level luxury segment, is good/great for road trips and fast charging, range*, etc (* depending on model and climate)
But it can be a lot pricier, there seems to be a lot of trouble getting repairs and insurance claims, and I've read the base model 3 range can come up pretty short for cold climates since it doesn't have a heat pump.


So its all about what you need. And whether the particular EV was sold to someone truthfully or not - I certainly feel bad for anyone who is facing those disadvantages on one model or another because the salesman pushed something that didn't really work for them.
 
Based on all the information given so far it seems a Prius Prime may be a better fit for my needs. For 29 out of 30 days in the month I need less than 20 miles total driving range, usually no more than 15 even. About once every 2-3 months I need to drive 4x miles to meet family and after lunch 4x miles back. Other than maybe 60-70 miles once every 2-3 months I could drive all electric with a Prime. So a Prime with a $4502 tax credit against a $27,500 or so price may be the best overall solution.
 
LDB415 said:
Based on all the information given so far it seems a Prius Prime may be a better fit for my needs. For 29 out of 30 days in the month I need less than 20 miles total driving range, usually no more than 15 even. About once every 2-3 months I need to drive 4x miles to meet family and after lunch 4x miles back. Other than maybe 60-70 miles once every 2-3 months I could drive all electric with a Prime. So a Prime with a $4502 tax credit against a $27,500 or so price may be the best overall solution.

It may indeed. Just keep in mind that the Prime also, AFAIK, uses a passively cooled battery, so it isn't immune to heat related degradation, either. Maybe Sagebrush can confirm of correct that.
 
LDB415 said:
Based on all the information given so far it seems a Prius Prime may be a better fit for my needs. For 29 out of 30 days in the month I need less than 20 miles total driving range, usually no more than 15 even. About once every 2-3 months I need to drive 4x miles to meet family and after lunch 4x miles back. Other than maybe 60-70 miles once every 2-3 months I could drive all electric with a Prime. So a Prime with a $4502 tax credit against a $27,500 or so price may be the best overall solution.
I sold my Prius Prime when our Tesla arrived but it really is an *excellent* car.

Back in 3/2017 ...
I paid $25,500 to the least expensive dealer I could find
$900 to ship the car from NY to NM
 
I really appreciate all the helpful input. I have to say in all sincerity this seems to be one of the most helpful forums I've ever participated in with the greatest number of helpful folks and none of the usual few negative types who can't wait to respond to new people while offering nothing useful.
 
LeftieBiker said:
LDB415 said:
Based on all the information given so far it seems a Prius Prime may be a better fit for my needs. For 29 out of 30 days in the month I need less than 20 miles total driving range, usually no more than 15 even. About once every 2-3 months I need to drive 4x miles to meet family and after lunch 4x miles back. Other than maybe 60-70 miles once every 2-3 months I could drive all electric with a Prime. So a Prime with a $4502 tax credit against a $27,500 or so price may be the best overall solution.

It may indeed. Just keep in mind that the Prime also, AFAIK, uses a passively cooled battery, so it isn't immune to heat related degradation, either. Maybe Sagebrush can confirm of correct that.
Not passive -- air cooled. I did some battery temperature monitoring during the summer while driving highway speeds at a moderate incline. The battery pretty quickly reached 38C and then plateaued.

So that is not bad at all. In addition,
the battery is unlikely to be used for more than one charge a day -- about 5.5 kWh
And, it is actually an 8.8 kWh nominal capacity. Toyota is *very* conservative with its SoC range.

Unlike Nissan, Toyota engineeers products to last well past the warranty and in this case that means 150k miles due to CARB.
 
Anyone can have a bad experience even with what are normally good cars from a good manufacturer.

I had a 2007 Camry hybrid and it had a 10 year 100,000 warranty on the traction battery
You always hear they last forever and there are plenty of Prius on the road to prove it.

Mine died at 10.5 years and 114k just out of warranty. . (Or at least one cell died, but the whole thing stops working)

After fighting with Toyota I was able to get them to pay for half of the battery, and I had to cover the rest plus the labor.
The worst part was that I called around to get the best price on the battery from different dealers, only to get there and then have them tell me their "parts" price wouldn't be honored for service. Even the dealer that did the work tried to overcharge me. I had to show them the email of the price they agreed to, and threatened to have my credit card company reverse the charges - and I already had the keys. They refunded back to the right price. (I should have checked the bill more carefully before swiping and signing, but I did catch it)

The lesson as always is that YMMV
 
LeftieBiker said:
I consider air cooling without fans or A/C involvement to still be passive. Gen 1 and 1.5 Leafs are also air cooled while driving. Or does the Prime have a blower for the pack?
Air is pulled from the passenger cabin by a fan that blows it through the battery pack

Please delete the dup post
 
LeftieBiker said:
Dupe deleted and thanks for the Prime info. Better than no active cooling but still not much use if the car is parked in hot weather.
The car gives the owner the option of turning on A/C while charging (this is an L2 only car.) I don't think the air cooling would suffice for a BEV (and most certainly not for DCFC) but I think it does the job adequately for the Prime.
---------
I saw 8 temp bars on the LEAF today -- first time ever ... after DCFC to 80%.
 
Not sure if this the place to post this question, but here I go! I live in North Dallas and am looking at a 2014 Leaf S, 40k miles, and L2 adapter for about 8k. Owner claims car has 11 bars, blah, blah, but I plan to use Spy Leaf to see if this looks good (still, no guarantees here, right?). Anyway, taking into account charge-at-night in garage, hot summers, and some cold days, will this car last 3 years for my 40-mile-a-day total commute?
 
gero said:
Not sure if this the place to post this question, but here I go! I live in North Dallas and am looking at a 2014 Leaf S, 40k miles, and L2 adapter for about 8k. Owner claims car has 11 bars, blah, blah, but I plan to use Spy Leaf to see if this looks good (still, no guarantees here, right?). Anyway, taking into account charge-at-night in garage, hot summers, and some cold days, will this car last 3 years for my 40-mile-a-day total commute?

If it has a full 11 bars (dropped one just in the last few months) then probably. If not, and it loses another bar a year in your hot climate...maybe. Keep the battery as cool as possible, and avoid Quick Charging when the battery is very warm or hot (7 temp bars or more).
 
gero said:
will this car last 3 years for my 40-mile-a-day total commute?

What kind of miles are your commute miles?

Freeway, side streets, a mix, or a reasonable choice between freeway and other routes?

How fast you drive matters a lot for how far you can go.
 
WetEV said:
gero said:
will this car last 3 years for my 40-mile-a-day total commute?

What kind of miles are your commute miles?

Freeway, side streets, a mix, or a reasonable choice between freeway and other routes?

How fast you drive matters a lot for how far you can go.

Commute is actually 17 miles each way, side streets (no highways), and at an average speed of 35-ish mph--been doing this commute for 10 years in my Prius 2010!
 
LeftieBiker said:
gero said:
Not sure if this the place to post this question, but here I go! I live in North Dallas and am looking at a 2014 Leaf S, 40k miles, and L2 adapter for about 8k. Owner claims car has 11 bars, blah, blah, but I plan to use Spy Leaf to see if this looks good (still, no guarantees here, right?). Anyway, taking into account charge-at-night in garage, hot summers, and some cold days, will this car last 3 years for my 40-mile-a-day total commute?

If it has a full 11 bars (dropped one just in the last few months) then probably. If not, and it loses another bar a year in your hot climate...maybe. Keep the battery as cool as possible, and avoid Quick Charging when the battery is very warm or hot (7 temp bars or more).

I'd have to look at the car and see what the battery health is using the app--still, no guarantees on that since the info can be reset. The owner states, "Total life charge capacity is still at 11 out of the maximum 12 bars. Total range is 85-90 miles." Owner is in Texas.
 
You might also check out carmax and carvana - I thought carmax had slightly better prices. I was originally looking for a 2015 used and they were around 9-10k at car max at the time (a few months back). Turned out I got lucky and got a new 2018 leftover for a great price, but car max was a good option as they can move stuff around for you if you are willing.

Oddly though about 4 months ago there was a glut of used on the sites and now there is a lot less. I don't know what happened.

The carmax salesman had no issue with me plugging in leafspy to check their vehicles.
 
gero said:
Commute is actually 17 miles each way, side streets (no highways), and at an average speed of 35-ish mph--been doing this commute for 10 years in my Prius 2010!

Ah, that's a good commute for the LEAF. Yet I am usually skeptical.

11 bars is roughly 80% to 85% of the battery. Reserve the bottom 20% for sanity's sake, and you have about 60% of the original usable battery for the commute. That is about 12.6 kWh, assuming the car is about to drop a bar.

Assuming even in cold weather you can probably get over 3.5 mile per kWh, need about 9.7kWh at worst. So you are fine, this year.

Battery capacity has lost 3% to 4% per year. 5 year old car, down 15% to 20%. Assuming 4%, next year you might have 76%, year after 72%, year after 68%, and so on.

In year 3, reserving the bottom 20%, this leaves just 48%. This is about 10kWh. Still OK, and with a 20 percent safety margin.

DCQCs are only needed for longer trips. Unneeded for commute.

Things to watch.

Do find covered or shaded parking at work, if you can.
Check your garage temperatures. If much warmer than outside, add insulation and ventilation as needed to reduce temperatures.
 
WetEV said:
gero said:
Commute is actually 17 miles each way, side streets (no highways), and at an average speed of 35-ish mph--been doing this commute for 10 years in my Prius 2010!

Ah, that's a good commute for the LEAF. Yet I am usually skeptical.

11 bars is roughly 80% to 85% of the battery. Reserve the bottom 20% for sanity's sake, and you have about 60% of the original usable battery for the commute. That is about 12.6 kWh, assuming the car is about to drop a bar.

Assuming even in cold weather you can probably get over 3.5 mile per kWh, need about 9.7kWh at worst. So you are fine, this year.

Battery capacity has lost 3% to 4% per year. 5 year old car, down 15% to 20%. Assuming 4%, next year you might have 76%, year after 72%, year after 68%, and so on.

In year 3, reserving the bottom 20%, this leaves just 48%. This is about 10kWh. Still OK, and with a 20 percent safety margin.

DCQCs are only needed for longer trips. Unneeded for commute.

Things to watch.

Do find covered or shaded parking at work, if you can.
Check your garage temperatures. If much warmer than outside, add insulation and ventilation as needed to reduce temperatures.

Makes total sense! Thanks so much for the excellent advise. :)
 
danrjones said:
You might also check out carmax and carvana - I thought carmax had slightly better prices. I was originally looking for a 2015 used and they were around 9-10k at car max at the time (a few months back). Turned out I got lucky and got a new 2018 leftover for a great price, but car max was a good option as they can move stuff around for you if you are willing.

Oddly though about 4 months ago there was a glut of used on the sites and now there is a lot less. I don't know what happened.

The carmax salesman had no issue with me plugging in leafspy to check their vehicles.

Will check with them!
 
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