2019 Leaf battery overheating

WetEV said:

spirilis said:

TMS matters whether you like it or not.

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My battery never gets warm enough for even a aggressive TMS to turn on.

Why should TMS matter to me?

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It should not matter to you. Probably other features you have paid for and will never use. Do those bug you too? Part of a mass market vehicle is to appeal to the broadest market. LEAF is getting to be more of a niche vehicle to be used in a limited fashion and narrow demographic. The low production may cost you more (and Nissan) in the long run.

smkettner said:

WetEV said:

spirilis said:

TMS matters whether you like it or not.

Click to expand...

My battery never gets warm enough for even a aggressive TMS to turn on.

Why should TMS matter to me?

Click to expand...

It should not matter to you. Probably other features you have paid for and will never use. Do those bug you too? Part of a mass market vehicle is to appeal to the broadest market. LEAF is getting to be more of a niche vehicle to be used in a limited fashion and narrow demographic. The low production may cost you more (and Nissan) in the long run.

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TMS does matter to a high end buyer. No question. But high end cars are not mass market, they might appeal, but will not meet the budget.

Tesla struggles to produce a $40k actual selling price car. Nissan has been making money selling a sub $30k actual selling price LEAF for years.

Sure, the LEAF can't do 0-60MPH in 3.2 seconds. Or drive from my house to New York, NY, and spend only 7 hours charging out of 54 hours of driving (according to ABRP).

A LEAF can and done very well at daily driving. Commuting to work. Shopping. Out to eat. Going to the beach. That's not a very limited niche.

No TMS about renders LEAF to 'second car' status. With a long range EV or gasoline vehicle available the LEAF is fine.
We can argue this all day long. The point is LEAF has additional limitations.

Acceleration and speed has nothing to do with this.

I can’t speak for hot climates, but the Leaf does better than many of the Tesla’s in the cold climates.

https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/02/Screen-Shot-2019-02-06-at-10.36.20-PM.jpg?quality=82&strip=all

Battery degradation is also slower up here in the north as we have few days over 90 degrees.

smkettner said:

No TMS about renders LEAF to 'second car' status.

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For you, perhaps. Not for everyone.

And for that matter, 57% of people have two car households.

smkettner said:

Acceleration and speed has nothing to do with this.

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Acceleration and speed add heat. Want high performance, need to get rid of that heat.

DougWantsALeaf said:

Battery degradation is also slower up here in the north as we have few days over 90 degrees.

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So ambient heat still has an effect? Great for all those in the PNW and Coastal CA.
Best of luck Nissan.

smkettner said:

LEAF is getting to be more of a niche vehicle to be used in a limited fashion and narrow demographic. The low production may cost you more (and Nissan) in the long run.

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In other words a "golf cart". Agreed.

Too bad, I was happy with the new design. Sounds like they really want to kill the Leaf. Just banking on some stale slogans of "best selling EV".

Very similar with the fate of Prius. They made a name for it and then milked it until dry.

My wife and I took a 425 mile trip today.
The Tesla was charged overnight to 100% SoC so we left with about 315 miles of EPA range.
On long trips I set the cruise control to 70 mph. We arrived at our 7 kW EVSE destination with 33% SoC left.

We left something over an hour later with 44% SoC, and drove ~ 12 miles extra off our most efficient route to reach a Supercharger where we stayed long enough for my wife to take a short walk and for me to stretch, use a bathroom, and eat a sandwich --- about 15 minutes. We arrived home with 14% SoC.

This is in the New Mexico/ SWColorado area where EV charging lags most of the US by a considerable margin.

In short: no drama, no planning, just a pleasant day trip.

We left something over an hour later with 44% SoC, and drove ~ 12 miles extra off our most efficient route to reach a Supercharger where we stayed long enough for my wife to take a short walk and for me to stretch, use a bathroom, and eat a sandwich --- about 15 minutes. We arrived home with 14% SoC.

This is in the New Mexico/ SWColorado area where EV charging lags most of the US by a considerable margin.

In short: no drama, no planning, just a pleasant day trip.

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To be fair, having 14% left would induce extreme range anxiety in lots of people - like my housemate, who drives a PHEV even though she never drives more than maybe 60 miles. The one time she used my 2013 Leaf to drive to work and home, she shut the heat off immediately after leaving here, got home with ~35% charge left, and considered it an unpleasant experience. Not because of no heat, but because she got so close to empty...

LeftieBiker said:

To be fair, having 14% left would induce extreme range anxiety in lots of people - like my housemate, who drives a PHEV even though she never drives more than maybe 60 miles. The one time she used my 2013 Leaf to drive to work and home, she shut the heat off immediately after leaving here, got home with ~35% charge left, and considered it an unpleasant experience. Not because of no heat, but because she got so close to empty...

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I guess everyone's different and those who have more experience near the bottom and know their car have no issues. On my '13 Leaf, I leave to work with no lower than 25% SoC. It's about 12 miles to work (slightly more or less depending on the route). I know it takes maybe 12 to 18% to get there on a dry day so 25% is more than enough. So, I pass LBW, which is no problem. Even if I hit VLBW, no problem, I'm almost there and I have free charging there. The only possible detours involve cutting my highway driving to 0 from about half of the driving by time.

On rainy or wet cold days, I leave w/no less than 30%, just in case.

LeftieBiker said:

Not because of no heat, but because she got so close to empty...

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'close' is subjective. My wife used to stop for petrol when the gauge reached mid-level, although she now isn't ruffled by our LEAF reaching home at 20% SoC. Experience helps a lot, as does the remarkably accurate and helpful range tools that Tesla offers. We have owned our Tesla for about a year and the range estimate for trips has been off at most by 2% SoC. Crazy accurate, in part due to the car taking elevation changes into account. You have to see it to believe it.

In any case, 14% SoC in the Model 3 LR is about 44 EPA miles. That is not much less than our LEAF charged up to our usual 80% SoC.

LeftieBiker said:

To be fair, having 14% left would induce extreme range anxiety in lots of people

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It REALLY matters what that 14% is of. On my old 24kWh Leaf getting under 20% was stressful but 14% of a 100kWh battery is not something to worry about.

On my new Leaf I have no issues until I get to 10% which is pretty much the same as 20% in the old leaf.

I always found the usage of percentages to be misleading. I would much rather be told how many kWh I have left. In sagebrush's case he had 14kW which translates to some 70 miles or so.

metricus said:

LeftieBiker said:

To be fair, having 14% left would induce extreme range anxiety in lots of people

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It REALLY matters what that 14% is of. On my old 24kWh Leaf getting under 20% was stressful but 14% of a 100kWh battery is not something to worry about.

On my new Leaf I have no issues until I get to 10% which is pretty much the same as 20% in the old leaf.

I always found the usage of percentages to be misleading. I would much rather be told how many kWh I have left. In sagebrush's case he had 14kW which translates to some 70 miles or so.

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No, it wouldn't matter much to people like my housemate. They don't see the number of miles left - they see a low battery.

LeftieBiker said:

metricus said:

LeftieBiker said:

To be fair, having 14% left would induce extreme range anxiety in lots of people

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It REALLY matters what that 14% is of. On my old 24kWh Leaf getting under 20% was stressful but 14% of a 100kWh battery is not something to worry about.

On my new Leaf I have no issues until I get to 10% which is pretty much the same as 20% in the old leaf.

I always found the usage of percentages to be misleading. I would much rather be told how many kWh I have left. In sagebrush's case he had 14kW which translates to some 70 miles or so.

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No, it wouldn't matter much to people like my housemate. They don't see the number of miles left - they see a low battery.

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This I have seen/heard many times. People still haven't completely wrapped their head around the fact that they have a refueling station in their garage. This is why LEAF Spy is singularly valued as a range extender. I might be different in that I don't care if I get home with only 30 feet of range to spare (I have come close to that many times!) because it is realistically 29 feet more than I needed!

But other people don't see it that way. I think part of it is the "gotta have enough to get home AND to a gas station" ideology.

DaveinOlyWA said:

LeftieBiker said:

metricus said:

It REALLY matters what that 14% is of. On my old 24kWh Leaf getting under 20% was stressful but 14% of a 100kWh battery is not something to worry about.

On my new Leaf I have no issues until I get to 10% which is pretty much the same as 20% in the old leaf.

I always found the usage of percentages to be misleading. I would much rather be told how many kWh I have left. In sagebrush's case he had 14kW which translates to some 70 miles or so.

Click to expand...

No, it wouldn't matter much to people like my housemate. They don't see the number of miles left - they see a low battery.

Click to expand...

This I have seen/heard many times. People still haven't completely wrapped their head around the fact that they have a refueling station in their garage. This is why LEAF Spy is singularly valued as a range extender. I might be different in that I don't care if I get home with only 30 feet of range to spare (I have come close to that many times!) because it is realistically 29 feet more than I needed!

But other people don't see it that way. I think part of it is the "gotta have enough to get home AND to a gas station" ideology.

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Not in my wife's case, anyway.

Her habit with an ICE car was to mostly ignore the fuel gauge, so on the occasions when she did look at it a reading below half prompted anxiety. Her habits with her LEAF are simply different: she either plugs in at home regardless of the SoC or she looks at the battery SoC before she leaves the car.

She adapted, even though flexibility is not her strong suit.

My HM adapted by getting a PHEV. She now drives an EV in town and a 65+MPG hybrid on longer errands. (She is pretty religious about plugging in three hours before leaving.)

LeftieBiker said:

My HM adapted by getting a PHEV. She now drives an EV in town and a 65+MPG hybrid on longer errands. (She is pretty religious about plugging in three hours before leaving.)

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That is better than 98% of car owners so give her a brownie !

My wife was unhappy about losing her Toyota Prime for a LEAF for many of the same reasons your HM has but when faced with a done deed she adapted quickly. Nowadays she hates ICE vehicles almost as much as me

Exactly what this particular topic is talking about:

Compared to what this Norway test shows, the 62kWh battery does substantially better at temp mgmt and charge rate at temp.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sQansDFt-GM

DougWantsALeaf said:

Compared to what this Norway test shows, the 62kWh battery does substantially better at temp mgmt and charge rate at temp.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sQansDFt-GM

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Still a substantial drawback on a hot day. Once the battery was at 120 F the charge rate was reduced by about half. The exterior temps were around 100-105 F.