Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 702
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue Jun 18, 2019 9:52 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:After about 200 million miles driven (extrapolating from anecdotal data and the cumulative total of 200,000 model 3's sold so far),
That would be 1000 miles per car
half of those were sold this year, so I under estimated their mileage. Seems I've screwed up the math.

So the model 3 might already have a better fire safety than even the leaf!
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Jun 19, 2019 6:14 am

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
SageBrush wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:After about 200 million miles driven (extrapolating from anecdotal data and the cumulative total of 200,000 model 3's sold so far),
That would be 1000 miles per car
half of those were sold this year, so I under estimated their mileage. Seems I've screwed up the math.
So the model 3 might already have a better fire safety than even the leaf!
That was my thought too. The Model 3 fleet is accumulating about 200 E6 miles a month now and the fleet is growing at about 20k cars a month. By next year 400 E6 miles a month.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

GRA
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Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Jun 19, 2019 4:34 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
GRA wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:After about 200 million miles driven (extrapolating from anecdotal data and the culmulative total of 200,000 model 3's sold so far), there has been ZERO battery fires so far: https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/threads ... es.141231/

It has a long way to go, before it can catch up to the Leaf's billion+ miles with only 1 fire, but it's on its way!
Good news. Does anyone know if Tesla added back some/all of the individual cell protection features to the 21700s that they had Panasonic remove from the 18650 cells on the Model S/X, to boost the specific energy/energy density and lower the cost?
No. Why should they? Individual cell thermal protection is redundant.

Of the 18650 cell fires (in a Tesla vehicle), I know of none that would've benefitted from isolating the thermal runaway to just the individual cells.
As the Model S/X have been experiencing thermal runaway at a much higher rate than other manufacturers, I'd think the justification for why they might want to add some protection back in, now that they're trying to be a normal, profitable car company, would be apparent.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 702
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Tue Jun 25, 2019 10:21 pm

GRA wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
GRA wrote: Good news. Does anyone know if Tesla added back some/all of the individual cell protection features to the 21700s that they had Panasonic remove from the 18650 cells on the Model S/X, to boost the specific energy/energy density and lower the cost?
No. Why should they? Individual cell thermal protection is redundant.

Of the 18650 cell fires (in a Tesla vehicle), I know of none that would've benefitted from isolating the thermal runaway to just the individual cells.
As the Model S/X have been experiencing thermal runaway at a much higher rate than other manufacturers, I'd think the justification for why they might want to add some protection back in, now that they're trying to be a normal, profitable car company, would be apparent.

Here's the evidence for the no individual cell protection (skip to the 9:30 mark for the pack breakdown, and the cell tear down starts at the 15 min mark): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nhQw7iGukE
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!

GRA
Posts: 11174
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:09 pm

Unfortunately not closed-captioned and thus of no use to me, but thanks anyway.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 702
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Thu Jun 27, 2019 7:34 pm

GRA wrote:Unfortunately not closed-captioned and thus of no use to me, but thanks anyway.
My initial reaction was of disgust that you would turn down the reference out of shear laziness. Then it just dawned on me that you might be hearing impaired?!?!

Is that the case?
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!

GRA
Posts: 11174
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:10 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
GRA wrote:Unfortunately not closed-captioned and thus of no use to me, but thanks anyway.
My initial reaction was of disgust that you would turn down the reference out of shear laziness. Then it just dawned on me that you might be hearing impaired?!?!

Is that the case?
Yes. Over the past 15 years or so I've progressed through moderate to severe and now profound hearing loss, and even with the extremely powerful and fancy hearing aids I have now it's a struggle for me to follow anything verbal, even one on one in a quiet environment. I don't use phones for anything other than texting anymore either, and am (finally) going to enter the 21st century and get a smart phone instead of my ancient flip phone, so I can hand the phone to others and use voice to text to make some sense of what they're saying (no doubt with the usual comical errors).

Many people here already knew about my crappy hearing and I thought you did too, so my bad; sorry for the confusion.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

Oils4AsphaultOnly
Posts: 702
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2015 4:09 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Nov 2016
Leaf Number: 313890
Location: Arcadia, CA

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:21 pm

GRA wrote:
Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote:
GRA wrote:Unfortunately not closed-captioned and thus of no use to me, but thanks anyway.
My initial reaction was of disgust that you would turn down the reference out of shear laziness. Then it just dawned on me that you might be hearing impaired?!?!

Is that the case?
Yes. Over the past 15 years or so I've progressed through moderate to severe and now profound hearing loss, and even with the extremely powerful and fancy hearing aids I have now it's a struggle for me to follow anything verbal, even one on one in a quiet environment. I don't use phones for anything other than texting anymore either, and am (finally) going to enter the 21st century and get a smart phone instead of my ancient flip phone, so I can hand the phone to others and use voice to text to make some sense of what they're saying (no doubt with the usual comical errors).

Many people here already knew about my crappy hearing and I thought you did too, so my bad; sorry for the confusion.
Sorry for my rudeness earlier.

I'll try to find something from Jack Rickard that's CC'd, but you'll just have to take my word for it that the 2170 cells for the model 3 also do NOT have any individual cell protection circuitry on them.
:: Model 3 LR :: acquired 9 May '18
:: Leaf S30 :: build date: Sep '16 :: purchased: Nov '16
100% Zero transportation emissions (except when I walk) and loving it!

GRA
Posts: 11174
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:33 pm

Oils4AsphaultOnly wrote: Sorry for my rudeness earlier.

I'll try to find something from Jack Rickard that's CC'd, but you'll just have to take my word for it that the 2170 cells for the model 3 also do NOT have any individual cell protection circuitry on them.
No problem. You don't need to look for anything CC'd either - if that's what he says, that's what he says. Going offline soon, and probably won't be back until Sunday (I'm in Solvang and have been doing some biking, but my buddy had some cramping issues this afternoon so we bagged it for the rest of the day, and I'm using a computer at the public library). My time's almost up.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 11174
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Fri Jun 28, 2019 3:32 pm

Well, my time got extended for 30 minutes (twice), so thought I'd add this link via ABG:
Tesla says single battery module caused car fire in Shanghai

No systemic problem, automaker says, though it pushes out a software update
https://www.autoblog.com/2019/06/28/tes ... -shanghai/
. . . The company said in a statement posted on its Weibo social media account that a joint investigation team had analyzed the battery, software, manufacturing data and vehicle history.

Initial results show that this fire, which was captured on video, was caused by a single battery module fault located at the front of the vehicle, Tesla said.

The company has revised the charge and thermal management settings on Model S and Model X vehicles via an over-the-air (OTA) software update, to help further protect the battery and improve battery longevity, the statement said.
And that's all for me today.
Last edited by GRA on Sun Jun 30, 2019 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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