Hyundai Kona Electric

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Nubo said:
OrientExpress said:
The current LEAF still presents a numerical percentage, but most other manufacturers don't mainly because HMI testing has shown that this confuses most users since the actual percentage can vary up and down depending on how factors such as grade, temperature, and regeneration and a numerical representation highlights that variance which is found to be confusing for the majority of users.

Guess I'm in the minority. For me theLEAF's percent display is the only non-BS battery metric on the car. Having it increase slightly on a long regenerative downhill run is not confusing -- it's expected. Certainly far more useful and better-behaved than the psychotic Guess-o-meter, or the "guess-a-width" battery bars. Give the rubes their DTE meter with big, friendly numbers, and the psychologically manipulated "bars", but please, PLEASE let me have a simple non-obfuscated representation of the remaining energy in the pack.
I agree with Nubo here. It always annoys me to see newbs to Leafs and Bolts get so confused about the guess-o-meter and "why does my car only charge up to x miles?" "I used up 40 miles of range going 25 miles on the highway..."

On WetEV's posts, I agree with points 1 and 3 thru 5. It's annoying that the Bolt has no % SoC display in the car's own UI but rather only 20 battery bars. At least GM put in marks at 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 but I have to count how many bars I am above 75% or below it or above 50% or below it. Fortunately, someone else (here?) gave me the hint that the My Chevrolet app on Carplay actually DOES have a % SoC display that will be displayed on the car's LCD. I knew the app had it but it was slow to update (just about as slow or slower than NissanConnect) when not connected via CarPlay. But, when connected via CarPlay, it self-updates fairly quickly.

3) Bolt has no battery temp display anywhere. I will have to get the Torque app and proper OBD2 dongle sometime.
4) After getting a Bolt, I can confidently say that anywhere except for the center of the nose of an EV is an sub-optimal position for the inlet now.
5) Like the UI on my '19 Bolt that lets me have charging stop at 40 to 100% in 5% increments.
 
OrientExpress said:
You are right, the main reason nobody offers this SOC percentage is that it simply isn’t a useful parameter that is confusing to the vast majority of BEV drivers.
I don't mean to shoot the messenger but to me, the ONLY useful measurement of capacity and thus range on my BEV Leafs is SOC% :) I mean Nissan seems to have learned their lesson, not having it on their first gen Leafs('11-'12) but adding it in '13 and on, you'd think other mfgs. would have learned from Nissan's mistake but no, like many other things in this world, people just don't learn from history :(
I mean how many people do you know who don't have SOC% enabled on their cell phones? No one I know of, not even sure you can disable SOC% on an android phone but on an Apple It's the first thing I do after taking it out of the box, enable SOC% :)
 
Agreed, the car battery is managed much like a cell phone battery as a user/driver. Think about it, you charge up every night and leave in the morning with a full charge. Not so true with an ICE.
 
LeftieBiker said:
The current LEAF still presents a numerical percentage, but most other manufacturers don't mainly because HMI testing has shown that this confuses most users since the actual percentage can vary up and down depending on how factors such as grade, temperature, and regeneration and a numerical representation highlights that variance which is found to be confusing for the majority of users.

The SOC display rarely if ever varies by temperature, at least not by more than 1%, and the only time it varies by grade is when the latest Nissan Bug kicks in on a 40kwh Leaf. None of the previous Leafs get confused or deceptive about SOC when climbing a hill. I'm guessing that, having only just learned about this feature, you are throwing excuses at the wall, to see what sticks. ;)

+1
 
OrientExpress said:
You are right, the main reason nobody offers this SOC percentage is that it simply isn’t a useful parameter that is confusing to the vast majority of BEV drivers.

You got that backwards. Manufacturers are too nieve to know what customers want. Remember the LEAF started with no SOC meter? That was a fail. Nissan added it and how many have complained? No one...

Manufacturers have mistakenly taken the longer range as the reason why SOC meter is no longer needed which is incredibly stupid. We have 400 mile gassers that run out of gas every hour of every day despite the nice little gauge...
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
You got that backwards. Manufacturers are too nieve to know what customers want. Remember the LEAF started with no SOC meter? That was a fail. Nissan added it and how many have complained? No one...
When the BMW i3 came out (shipped in Europe before the US), it also had no % SoC display. I don't recall if this applied to the BEV or REx or both. Folks complained loudly to no avail. BMW gave some goofy excuse along the lines of (IIRC), we think our GOM is good. :roll: Not sure if they've fixed that deficiency since then.
 
cwerdna said:
4) After getting a Bolt, I can confidently say that anywhere except for the center of the nose of an EV is an sub-optimal position for the inlet now.

Yet many new EVs have the charging port someplace other than the center of the nose.

Why?

The Hyundai Kona Electric seems to slightly to the left facing forwards. I'm not sure that this is a problem, clearly better than on the side.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Yet many new EVs have the charging port someplace other than the center of the nose.

Why?

Sticking it in the fender is cheaper. I suspect that the Leaf position has remained in the nose mainly because of the heavy Chademo cables.

120 Amp cable is a 120 Amp cable. CCS or Chademo, no difference.
 
OrientExpress said:
I just went through all the photos of BEVs that I have tested over the last three years and other than the current '18-'19 LEAF not a single one had a numerical percentage display of battery charge.
you didn't test a Tesla? It can display SOC% (but only by replacing the remaining range with the SOC%).

The underlying value is the same: range is just remaining charge (in kWh) multiplied by the rated efficiency, which is a fixed value per model.

IMHO, a real range value like that is far better than a SOC%. How far can I go when the car says the SOC is 50%? It depends upon the car. Its certainly different in my wife's X vs. my S. If the car doesn't have a real range display (and instead a LEAF-like GOM), then the SOC% becomes crucial. But I think they've missed out on giving the driver the more important value.
 
jlv said:
IMHO, a real range value like that is far better than a SOC%. How far can I go when the car says the SOC is 50%? It depends upon the car.

If the GOM is smarter than you are, knows more about the weather than you do, knows the route better than you do, knows traffic conditions better than you do, and know how you are going to drive, I'd agree. And I'm not saying I want only an SOC%, a GOM is useful even when less than ideal.

This is almost a moot point. GOM, SOC% and SOC bars are all rarely used. If you bought an EV that has enough range for daily driving in any weather with capacity loss and a safety margin, then you almost never care about charge level, range to empty, and so on. For most people, on most days, any, all or none would be fine.
 
I think it should all be available and leave it up to the driver to decide what to use and how it should be interpreted. Seems like manufacturers do not want to give us that option (Nissan seemingly excepted)

I travel the digital World extensively and hear constant complaints about the lack of "right" information people are looking for. My LEAF has MANY different options whether it be km or miles/kwh or power estimates over 100 km. Do I need all that? Not really although it fun to play with it at times but its all about choice.

But at the same time, I get people's frustration over seeing figures they are not familiar with. I tried to live with my TPMS in Pascals but it was simply too weird. I accepted it but then again, why? When it took all of 3 seconds to change back? Its like vacation; We look forward to it for weeks but after a while of it, we simply desire to go back to work and sleep in our own beds.
 
cwerdna said:
alozzy said:
Sounds like the Kona Electric will be available in California this month:

http://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/25689/2019-hyundai-kona-electric-review-the-longest-range-electric-car-you-can-buy-thats-not-a-tesla

Lucky Californians!
Will be interesting to see the sales/lease figures and to see if it's basically So Cal only virtual vaporware that ships in tiny quantities (e.g. averaging under 50 units/month) or if they're actually serious.

For comparison, per https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/, a whopping 345 Ioniq EVs were sold in the US for 2018. For 2018, the worst month was 3 and the highest I see was 60.
I got curious and took a look at https://insideevs.com/news/343998/monthly-plug-in-ev-sales-scorecard/. Well, sales are pretty puny. Unclear if there's lack of supply, lack of awareness, lack of demand or too high a price (e.g. lack of discounting or dealer markups).

Highest so far was a month with 127 units. The rest have been sub-100 units in a month. Will be interesting to see the June results
 
cwerdna said:
cwerdna said:
Will be interesting to see the sales/lease figures and to see if it's basically So Cal only virtual vaporware that ships in tiny quantities (e.g. averaging under 50 units/month) or if they're actually serious.

For comparison, per https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard/, a whopping 345 Ioniq EVs were sold in the US for 2018. For 2018, the worst month was 3 and the highest I see was 60.
I got curious and took a look at https://insideevs.com/news/343998/monthly-plug-in-ev-sales-scorecard/. Well, sales are pretty puny. Unclear if there's lack of supply, lack of awareness, lack of demand or too high a price (e.g. lack of discounting or dealer markups).

Highest so far was a month with 127 units. The rest have been sub-100 units in a month. Will be interesting to see the June results
I saw my first two Kona EVs in the wild this month, in the East Bay, so they are definitely here in NorCal. I've never seen a Hyundai ad for them or any other of the Korean PEVs, other than the original Soul EV TV ad and one more since.
 
Board,

Do you think the Kona’s range advantages over Niro and Leaf are due to drive train, wheels, weight, ???

Niro and Kona do have 2 to potentially 4 more kWh of available battery, so that explains 8-16 miles of the range difference, but not the other 16-20 miles of range difference. Aerodynamics are pretty similar. Weight is very similar.

I haven’t had a chance to drive the Kona EV yet (not available here), but wondered if those who had driven both, had noticed any difference in the driving which might hint towards the improvement. The only guess I have is that it is pretty difficult to keep the leaf at a constant power output and as a result you zig zag the power output when driving. I have read in many reviews that beyond 30 or so mph the Niro/Kona are tad more sluggish, and wonder if a more mild/stretched accelerator mapping helps level the draw and improve efficiency.

Please pass on anything you know or speculate.

Thank you
 
I think trying to compare the Kona with the LEAF involves too many variables, and the Niro and Kona's specs are much more similar, although they use cells from two different companies. In that case, I'd think it's almost entirely due to size and weight differences, but the Niro's heat pump cancels out that advantage in the real world any time that's in use.

I haven't driven the Kona as I know it's too short (lacking in cargo space with rear seats up, and lie down space with them down, as with the Bolt) for me, so can't comment on its driving characteristics, but judging by reviews it's got the more sporty feel of the two Koreans, which is what you'd expect. Certainly the Bolt is more of a driver's car than the Niro, and if the Niro's practical aspects were irrelevant and I just wanted a fun car to drive, I'd go Bolt. Reviews seem to rank them in that category as 1. Bolt, 2. Kona, 3. Niro.
 
I saw an Ionic for the first time yesterday. It was charging at Kohl's. Nice looking car. A bit smaller than the Leaf, especially inside, from what I could see. Still no Konas or Niros spotted here.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Board,

Do you think the Kona’s range advantages over Niro and Leaf are due to drive train, wheels, weight, ???

Niro and Kona do have 2 to potentially 4 more kWh of available battery, so that explains 8-16 miles of the range difference, but not the other 16-20 miles of range difference. Aerodynamics are pretty similar. Weight is very similar.
Kona and Niro EV power train is identical. Niro is heavier and less aerodynamic, but much more comfortable car for family. Hyundai rates their car at 0F or 32F(speculative), unlike others who want to claim as much as possible longer range taking it at 80F(no doubt). So yes, in the summer you get extra 2-4kWh depending on temperature on all Hyundai EV, in mild winter you get rated range, while others are screaming and cursing EV batteries and range loss beyond advertised figures at low temperature.

EPA should really set rules on how minimum range is estimated (winter should be taken into account), anything above it - is just icing on the cake. My Ioniq EV shows 161 miles estimate, 164 miles of real range in the summer at 80F average temperature. I never got rated 124 miles, even in cold weather in winter, always more than rated range estimated & real.
 
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