2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

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Build date of November 2015, so that would explain the rapid degradation.

It's certainly possible, even likely. We know the early builds have more cell defects, but we need a few more examples of early degradation being linked to early build dates, and better longevity linked to later build dates, to have a real pattern.
 
iPlug said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
iPlug said:
2016 Leaf SV leased 4/16

30kWh battery replaced with new battery in 3/18:

AHr= 82.34
SOH= 103.60%
Hx= 97.45%
Odo= 18,729 mi
QC= 31
L1/L2= 660

Battery Software update already installed

4/3/19:
AHr= 73.98
SOH= 93.08%
Hx= 79.36%
Odo= 27,556 mi
QC= 36
L1/L2= 902


3-year lease was up this month. Just got 3 month extension.

That is way too much loss
Re-ran the OBDII/LeafSpy numbers again this morning with different SOC, and the numbers almost identical, a tad less on all metrics. Can wait 3 more months to get into a new lease or possibly buy new BEV if the terms are right.
6/8/19:
AHr= 74.03
SOH= 93.14%
Hx= 79.47%
Odo= 28,732 mi
QC= 36
L1/L2= 926

Trading this 2016 30kWh Leaf SV in for a new lease with a 2019 40kWh Leaf SV in a few hours. Looks like everything stabilized over the last few months. Good news for the future owner.
 
iPlug said:
iPlug said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
That is way too much loss
Re-ran the OBDII/LeafSpy numbers again this morning with different SOC, and the numbers almost identical, a tad less on all metrics. Can wait 3 more months to get into a new lease or possibly buy new BEV if the terms are right.
6/8/19:
AHr= 74.03
SOH= 93.14%
Hx= 79.47%
Odo= 28,732 mi
QC= 36
L1/L2= 926

Trading this 2016 30kWh Leaf SV in for a new lease with a 2019 40kWh Leaf SV in a few hours. Looks like everything stabilized over the last few months. Good news for the future owner.

Looks like that replacement pack is only doing a bit better. Mine was 10/16 build (the last month of 16 MY) 30 kwh S trim. I had 29413 miles on it with 100% SOH. (before the additional digits came in)

In the last 2 weeks before she was killed, ahr varied from 81.78 to 82.34 (82.34 is new pack reading) FYI; never got the chance to install the SW update.

Now we can attribute my nondegradable pack to weather which seems to be the status quo here but now I have the 2018 with only 20,000 miles on it and SOH lower than yours. There is also a fellow NWer who had an early build 30 kwh LEAF like yours and lost 10% in just under a year so they are not "complying" with the climate rule either.

I personally think its shoddy quality control. I rolled the dice on the S30 and came up a winner. Not so much on the S40.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Looks like that replacement pack is only doing a bit better. Mine was 10/16 build (the last month of 16 MY) 30 kwh S trim. I had 29413 miles on it with 100% SOH. (before the additional digits came in)

In the last 2 weeks before she was killed, ahr varied from 81.78 to 82.34 (82.34 is new pack reading) FYI; never got the chance to install the SW update.

Now we can attribute my nondegradable pack to weather which seems to be the status quo here but now I have the 2018 with only 20,000 miles on it and SOH lower than yours. There is also a fellow NWer who had an early build 30 kwh LEAF like yours and lost 10% in just under a year so they are not "complying" with the climate rule either.

I personally think its shoddy quality control. I rolled the dice on the S30 and came up a winner. Not so much on the S40.
Hoping our new 40kWh pack will do better, but it doesn't really matter since we are continuing to lease and the warranty giving us a minimum protected threshold. It will be a secondary vehicle as the 30 kWh Leaf was, and with the improved 150 mile EV range it will be even more than we need.

The Model 3 SR+ will remain the primary vehicle and will take us on the longest trips when needed. We're vacationing with my cousin's family at the end of this month so will drive 400 miles down to L.A. then down to San Diego and back, so ~1,200 miles round trip. 240 mile range and the fastest L3 (supercharging) absolves this responsibility from the Leaf.

The Leaf will remain a city car and really max round trip will remain the 50 miles to and from the airport. Might rarely take it up to Tahoe if we need two cars and use the free EVgo L3/L2 charging we get for 2 years.
 
iPlug said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
Looks like that replacement pack is only doing a bit better. Mine was 10/16 build (the last month of 16 MY) 30 kwh S trim. I had 29413 miles on it with 100% SOH. (before the additional digits came in)

In the last 2 weeks before she was killed, ahr varied from 81.78 to 82.34 (82.34 is new pack reading) FYI; never got the chance to install the SW update.

Now we can attribute my nondegradable pack to weather which seems to be the status quo here but now I have the 2018 with only 20,000 miles on it and SOH lower than yours. There is also a fellow NWer who had an early build 30 kwh LEAF like yours and lost 10% in just under a year so they are not "complying" with the climate rule either.

I personally think its shoddy quality control. I rolled the dice on the S30 and came up a winner. Not so much on the S40.
Hoping our new 40kWh pack will do better, but it doesn't really matter since we are continuing to lease and the warranty giving us a minimum protected threshold. It will be a secondary vehicle as the 30 kWh Leaf was, and with the improved 150 mile EV range it will be even more than we need.

The Model 3 SR+ will remain the primary vehicle and will take us on the longest trips when needed. We're vacationing with my cousin's family at the end of this month so will drive 400 miles down to L.A. then down to San Diego and back, so ~1,200 miles round trip. 240 mile range and the fastest L3 (supercharging) absolves this responsibility from the Leaf.

The Leaf will remain a city car and really max round trip will remain the 50 miles to and from the airport. Might rarely take it up to Tahoe if we need two cars and use the free EVgo L3/L2 charging we get for 2 years.

You don't need NCTC there. I am guessing you have heard about "Drive the Arc?"
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
You don't need NCTC there. I am guessing you have heard about "Drive the Arc?"
We do need it to use it for free. No charge to charge is run by EVgo in these parts which is also “Drive the Arc”.
 
June update. 342 GID's 75.04AH SOH=94.42% Hx=81.67% 62347 total mi. 117418 mi on new battery. 15 DCFC and 331 l2 charges on the new battery. The new battery continues to do better than the old one but May was exceptionally wet and cool. June is still relatively cool so far this year but the battery is holding up better than I expected. I'm down 6% from new in just under a year and at this rate the car will meet my needs for 3 more years but I'll probably sell or trade it in after I hit 100K. I've learned that 30 KWH Is more than adequate for my normal daily use but that 24 KWH is marginal and 20 KWH means an extra charge most days (5-10 KWH somewhere just to make sure I can make it home with some reserve). I'm sure that having to charge every day takes a toll on the battery even if it's mostly L2 charging. My next car is going to need to have at least 50-60 KWH and 250 mile range or better. If I could get 300 miles of range then I could charge to 80% and drive for 3 days between charges.
 
My next car is going to need to have at least 50-60 KWH and 250 mile range or better.

Someone told me that Chevy Bolts are now getting deep discounts like never before. Looks like Escondido has better deals than Bob Stall:
https://www.qualitychevy.com/VehicleSearchResults?search=new&model=Bolt%20EV

BTW, my 2016 SV is at:
AHr = 57.44
SOH = 72.27%
Hx = 41.37%
65,155 miles
Capacity at full charge is about 20.5 kWh

LeafSpy Pro
 
^^^
The above discounts are similar in amount to what we were seeing in the SF Bay Area (e.g. Fremont and Concord Chevy) towards the end of May. I think once we hit end of May or beginning of June is when they dried up/stopped. Then at some point in picked up again.
 
Thanks to a supposed chat transcript at https://www.facebook.com/groups/437741293059829/permalink/1247303205436963/, we learned that "The 24kw costs 8600 dollars to order, the 30kw costs 10500 to order." :(

It's a bit distressing that the rep used the wrong units to describe capacity all through ("kw" instead of kWh).

Fortunately, nobody or almost nobody should be past capacity warranty yet on their 30 kWh packs.
 
Given the rebates and credits still available here in CO I can't imagine anyone going down that path if their battery was kaput. Even after selling the old battery (eg for solar backup) it doesn't make sense compared to the cost of a new Leaf after all the credits. I guess that Nissan would rather sell a new car than a replacement battery pack.
 
I just dropped from 10 bars to 9 bars in my 2016 SV on 2019-06-29


From CSV uploaded to DropBox from LeafSpy Pro after nearly full L2 charge on 2019-06-29:

263 GID's
57.5AH
SOH=72.34%
Hx=41.51%
65575 miles
47 QC and 1421 L1/L2 charges.
Capacity at full charge is about 20.5 kWh


Later on the same day I noticed that I was at 9 bars.
LeafSpy Pro screens:

AHr = 57.51
SOH = 72.36%
Hx = 41.55%
65580 miles


Is there an entry in Log_GC300706_190629_3EF59.csv where I can deduce where Leaf dashboard dropped from 10 bars to 9 bars? Not sure why I'm asking, what value would that give me?
 
^^^
To confirm, you already had the update at https://insideevs.com/news/338528/update-nissan-has-software-fix-for-2016-17-leaf-30-kwh-battery-reporting-issues/ installed, right?
 
cwerdna said:
^^^
To confirm, you already had the update at https://insideevs.com/news/338528/update-nissan-has-software-fix-for-2016-17-leaf-30-kwh-battery-reporting-issues/ installed, right?


Yes, I am assuming so.

I have record from previous owner for work done at Nissan dealership on 08/30/18 that has this entry:

Mileage 61641

PERFORM RECALL
PC630 LEAF 30KW BATTERY NTB18-039
OPEN RECALL
REPROGRAMMED LIBC


CUSTOMER STATES BATTERY LIFE GOES FROM MISSING ONE BAR TO 3
AND KEEPS GOING BACK TO 1. ADVISE
.
REPROGRAM SHOULD ADDRESS THE CONCERN
 
July update. 341 GID's 74.63AH SOH=93.90% Hx=80.64% 63796 total mi. 18867 mi on new battery. 17 DCFC and 359 l2 charges on the new battery. The new battery continues to do better than the old one but June was exceptionally cool. The battery is holding up better than I expected. I'm down 6% from new in just over a year and at this rate the car will still meet my needs for a couple more years but I'll still probably sell or trade it in after I hit 100K. My next car is going to need to have at least 50-60 KWH and a 250 mile range or better. If I could get 300 miles of range then I could charge to 80% and drive for 3 days between charges. So far only the Tesla model 3 and a 60 KWH Leaf meet my requirements. Everything else is out of my price league and a $50K Model 3 is a stretch at that. Maybe I can hold out for a VW I.D. or maybe Ford will come up with something. $40-45K would be more comfortable. Given Nissan's treatment of it's customers, I am having a hard time figuring why I'd even lease a new Leaf let alone buy it outright! I had been hoping that I could get an off-lease Model 3 in a couple of years but that doesn't seem to be a possibility now. The other possibility is a Tesla Truck to replace my old Tundra. If it comes in at $50K and seats 5-6, I might be able to do that.
 
johnlocke said:
July update. 341 GID's 74.63AH SOH=93.90% Hx=80.64% 62347 total mi. 117418 mi on new battery. 17 DCFC and 359 l2 charges on the new battery. The new battery continues to do better than the old one but June was exceptionally cool. The battery is holding up better than I expected. I'm down 6% from new in just over a year and at this rate the car will still meet my needs for a couple more years but I'll still probably sell or trade it in after I hit 100K.
...
My next car is going to need to have at least 50-60 KWH and a 250 mile range or better. If I could get 300 miles of range then I could charge to 80% and drive for 3 days between charges. So far only the Tesla model 3 and a 60 KWH Leaf meet my requirements. Everything else is out of my price league and a $50K Model 3 is a stretch at that. Maybe I can hold out for a VW I.D. or maybe Ford will come up with something. $40-45K would be more comfortable
Is there a typo or extra digit in the 1st line? I'm confused.

I forget, was something wrong w/the Bolt? They are sometimes heavily discounted. Seems like if you could snap one up if/when they hit $11K to $12K off MSRP again combined with $3750 Federal tax credit, that might might your needs. EPA range rating is a bit higher than both Leaf Plus. It's got active thermal management and '19 Bolts let you limit how full to charge the battery to (40 to 100% in 5% increments).

Yes, the front seats are sucky in terms of comfort. Oddly, the rear seats are ok. I sat in the back of one being driven as an Uber/Lyft for about an hour long ago. I also sat in the back for quite awhile to work on my laptop while I was using public L2 charging. (In my family, we've had 3 GM vehicles long ago (model years '78, 80 and 86). All of them had decent to good front seat comfort. They didn't have padding that was inadequate or too hard. Their reliability wasn't very good though. I am the first in my immediate family to give GM another try after we stopped buying their vehicles.)

And, there are other competitors for that sort of range and MSRP (e.g. Niro EV and Kona EV) but with full $7500 Federal tax credit.

$50K 3? They start at $35.4K (off-menu), but now the tax credit is $1875 (https://www.tesla.com/support/incentives).
 
cwerdna said:
johnlocke said:
July update. 341 GID's 74.63AH SOH=93.90% Hx=80.64% 62347 total mi. 117418 mi on new battery. 17 DCFC and 359 l2 charges on the new battery. The new battery continues to do better than the old one but June was exceptionally cool. The battery is holding up better than I expected. I'm down 6% from new in just over a year and at this rate the car will still meet my needs for a couple more years but I'll still probably sell or trade it in after I hit 100K.
...
My next car is going to need to have at least 50-60 KWH and a 250 mile range or better. If I could get 300 miles of range then I could charge to 80% and drive for 3 days between charges. So far only the Tesla model 3 and a 60 KWH Leaf meet my requirements. Everything else is out of my price league and a $50K Model 3 is a stretch at that. Maybe I can hold out for a VW I.D. or maybe Ford will come up with something. $40-45K would be more comfortable
Is there a typo or extra digit in the 1st line? I'm confused.

I forget, was something wrong w/the Bolt? They are sometimes heavily discounted. Seems like if you could snap one up if/when they hit $11K to $12K off MSRP again combined with $3750 Federal tax credit, that might might your needs. EPA range rating is a bit higher than both Leaf Plus. It's got active thermal management and '19 Bolts let you limit how full to charge the battery to (40 to 100% in 5% increments).

Yes, the front seats are sucky in terms of comfort. Oddly, the rear seats are ok. I sat in the back of one being driven as an Uber/Lyft for about an hour long ago. I also sat in the back for quite awhile to work on my laptop while I was using public L2 charging. (In my family, we've had 3 GM vehicles long ago (model years '78, 80 and 86). All of them had decent to good front seat comfort. They didn't have padding that was inadequate or too hard. Their reliability wasn't very good though. I am the first in my immediate family to give GM another try after we stopped buying their vehicles.)

And, there are other competitors for that sort of range and MSRP (e.g. Niro EV and Kona EV) but with full $7500 Federal tax credit.

$50K 3? They start at $35.4K (off-menu), but now the tax credit is $1875 (https://www.tesla.com/support/incentives).
Two typos actually, Now corrected. New Bolt could work but I'm not a fan of GM. GM has a style of customer care similar to Nissan. The Kona and the Niro are possibilities but they are so new that there is no way to predict their reliability. The price is appealing but I don't really want to be a guinea pig again. The VW has the same problem but I would count on the Germans getting it right because another failure would likely destroy the company.

A Model 3 starts at $39K unless you want the stripper model. The differences are significant enough that the price is warranted. Add in Paint, Delivery and registration and you are up to $46K. Add either long range or full self driving and you are well over $50K. Model 3 is a couple of classes above the Leaf, NIro,or the Kona so the cost is somewhat justified. It's possible that I might be able to find a used Model 3 in a couple of years or so. That might get me below $30K.
 
We tried looking at the Bolt as well, given the modestly higher epa range. Wife thought the seats sucked, and the plastic on the dash looked cheap..so no go on the car. The storage in the back also was less then needed for Costco runs. (One of the few ares where the Leaf beats the competition) .

We like our Plus, sans the new flared front thing. The old design there was better. Otherwise the range is pretty good. I have done 220+ on the highway with 10% (and hidden capacity) left.

In terms of cost, I am with you. The SR+ is really low 40s where the Leaf Plus all said and done is either high 20’s for the S or 30-31K for the SC decked out. 10K is not trivial.

Also everyone forgets that it comes with a Level 2 charge cable, so that saves you another 500 bucks.

Just my 2 cents.

If I was 27 and With fewer children, I would have gone Tesla, but economical conservative middle aged dad went Leaf.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
We tried looking at the Bolt as well, given the modestly higher epa range. Wife thought the seats sucked, and the plastic on the dash looked cheap..so no go on the car. The storage in the back also was less then needed for Costco runs. (One of the few ares where the Leaf beats the competition) .

...
In terms of cost, I am with you. The SR+ is really low 40s where the Leaf Plus all said and done is either high 20’s for the S or 30-31K for the SC decked out. 10K is not trivial.

Also everyone forgets that it comes with a Level 2 charge cable, so that saves you another 500 bucks.
I hear you about the seats and the lousy interior. I mentioned this in a thread on Bolt FB group and was surprised to see a response from a guy w/a Mercedes GLC claiming he basically doesn't find the Bolt's interior objectionable. To me, it's a significant step down even from my '13 Leaf in terms of quality.

Teslas come with a mobile connector: https://www.tesla.com/support/home-charging-installation/mobile-connector. They used to include the NEMA 14-50 adapter but stopped recently. It's only $35 for a NEMA 14-50 adapter to use w/that MC: https://shop.tesla.com/us/en/product/vehicle-accessories/gen-2-nema-adapters.html.
johnlocke said:
Bolt could work but I'm not a fan of GM. GM has a style of customer care similar to Nissan.
I'm also no fan of GM for various reasons. We'll have to see about their "customer care". I have yet to deal with them yet for any issues, fortunately.

Reliability has never been a strong point of VW, so I wouldn't count of their EVs to do any better than the rest of their product line.
 
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