2011 Leaf, battery near 8 year/100k warranty - Question

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ALeafHaver

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Joined
Jul 18, 2019
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2
Hi everyone (first post here, and a cross-post from the /leaf subreddit, so apologies if you're seeing it twice),

I have a 2011 Leaf that I purchased last year (I initially at least liked it so much overall that I bought a second one). It's approaching the 8-year in-service date, which as I understand it includes a warranty that covers battery defects and/or bad cells, as well as the on-board charging machinery in the car.

The battery has lost a good amount of its charge (down to 5 bars of the original 12), and I know that capacity loss on its own is covered by a different warranty. However, I am thinking something might possibly be wrong with the battery and/or the on-board charging system beyond normal degradation - at various points in the last few months, there's been the car icon on the dashboard with an exclamation mark, and for a short time there was a "see dealer"-type notification on the dash as well. Although I think neither of these lights are regularly showing up now, which I figure might make any problem harder to diagnose.

Additionally, the battery's driving range itself has gone down substantially in just the year that I've had the car, and CHAdeMO charging appears to be substantially slower than with the other 2011 Leaf I have (which I understand to have had a battery replacement under warranty before I purchased the car due to capacity loss), despite having what I would presume to be fewer cells to charge overall. Haven't directly compared J-1772 charging rates, but at least the dashboard "amount of charging time to 100%" suggest that this Leaf (with the original battery) gets to 100% much quicker on Level 2 than the other.

I certainly want to get this Leaf's battery inspected before this warranty passes, and hadn't given a ton of thought to where I got the inspection done, but it's occurred to me that some dealerships might be either less than fully knowledgeable about the Leaf battery, and/or resistant to diagnose anything wrong that might possibly necessitate a battery replacement. I'm not looking to have the battery replacement if the apparent deterioration is due to things truly not covered by the warranty, but I also don't want to potentially be jerked around by a service center that either doesn't know much more than I do about battery problems, and/or one is likely to go out of its way to avoid any kind of diagnosis that might mean a battery replacement or some other substantial repair covered under warranty.
I'm in Tennessee; has anyone had particularly good experiences with any dealership's service center that they feel has treated them fairly and has been particularly knowledgeable? And has anyone had experiences with battery issues other than capacity loss that were determined to either be covered or not be covered by the 8 year/100000 mile warranty on a 2011/2012 Leaf?

Thank you for any insight fellow Leaf-havers or former Leaf-havers might be able to offer.
 
ALeafHaver said:
I have a 2011 Leaf that I purchased last year (I initially at least liked it so much overall that I bought a second one). It's approaching the 8-year in-service date, which as I understand it includes a warranty that covers battery defects and/or bad cells, as well as the on-board charging machinery in the car..
OBC is NOT covered by 8 year/100K warranty. It's part of the 5 year/60K warranty EV system warranty. See your warranty booklet.
 
Thanks. So decreasingly efficient CHAdeMO charging speed is at least-somewhat typical as a general battery aging-related issue? It seems like CHAdeMO charging has become much less efficient since I've had the car, although maybe I'm just noticing it more now in comparison to the other Leaf.
 
While it isn't impossible that you've developed a bad cell, it is much more likely that you haven't. You can use the LeafSpy Pro app to show the voltages for all of the cells individually, and this will tell you if you have a bad cell. The dealership would have to do a different, Nissan-approved test called a CVLI to determine if it was eligible for warranty replacement, but LeafSpy is the first step. Read the topic here that applies to your phone (android or IOS).
 
^^^
It's only for battery defects.

See https://owners.nissanusa.com/content/techpub/ManualsAndGuides/LEAF/2011/2011-LEAF-warranty-booklet.pdf. https://owners.nissanusa.com/nowners/navigation/manualsGuide only goes back to '13, but you can alter the URL and the PDF is still there.

Prior to the 5 year/60K capacity warranty (https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13192) that came about due to the Klee class action lawsuit settlement, Nissan published this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DShtvd5jJHQ.
 
Use LeafSpy to pull diagnostic codes. The only unusual or concerning thing I've seen your statement is the warning lights. Even my very badly degraded 7 (almost 6) bar battery never threw any warning lights or see dealer type codes.
 
IIRC, the Pro version of Leaf Spy is needed to pull up the DTCs. OP would be best served by retrieving those first to see if it's something serious, would/wouldn't be covered or due to the 3G TCU bugs (which there's a TSB for).
 
ALeafHaver said:
Thanks. So decreasingly efficient CHAdeMO charging speed is at least-somewhat typical as a general battery aging-related issue? It seems like CHAdeMO charging has become much less efficient since I've had the car, although maybe I'm just noticing it more now in comparison to the other Leaf.

Yes, as batteries age their internal resistance goes up, which causes them to heat up more when you charge them. As a result, they can't be charged as quickly. The BMS knows this and will adjust the charge rate accordingly. I would expect as the battery degrades that a full recharge on CHAdeMO would continue to take a roughly similar amount of time to charging a new battery despite the degraded one holding less energy.
 
Since the car charges at both L2 and DCQC, there is probably nothing wrong with the car's onboard charging system. The EV system error light on the dash could be an indication of a failure (such as weak cells) that is covered by the 8-year, 100,000-mile battery defect warranty. The best course of action would be to get Leaf Spy Pro and a suitable Bluetooth adapter so you can read the error codes. Report the error codes along with cell-pair voltage graphs back to this thread so we can give you some more recommendations.
 
Yep, the error codes and doing the rough equivalent of the CVLI test can help. If the latter fails, you can try to argue to get the dealer to the replace the bad modules, if any.

Google for site:mynissanleaf.com cvli.

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=21700 was an example of a Leaf w/a bad module. The 2nd driver was able to get his dealer to fix it. (I actually know JeremyW a bit and have talked to him in person on several occasions. He added me as a FB friend awhile ago.)
 
Hi all,

Following up to this thread (and thanks for the helpful replies so far - this is the OP, but can’t figure out how to log back in).

Could anyone be kind enough to help me interpret this info from the LeafSpy app about OBD codes and battery health?

With the warranty expiring soon, I went ahead and dropped the Leaf off for a service appointment next week, but the technician went ahead and looked at the car after they had an appointment open up (I was hoping to have insight on this LeafSpy app info before the appointment). The technician noted the P33D4 code that he believed to be associated with the yellow car/exclamation point icon on the dashboard and related to capacity loss, but he said he didn’t notice anything on his initial look that would necessitate further testing.

OBD Code readouts/log from LeafSpy Pro app:

sgrhvc.jpg


2621qu1.jpg


Additional LeafSpy screenshots that it seemed might be relevant, some I think relating to battery cell health: https://www.flickr.com/photos/183155543@N06/
(most of these were taken when the car was down to about 8 miles remaining after a 15 mile highway drive, but a few were taken with near full battery before the drive - several of the photos might have redundant info in them, sorry about that)

Thanks to all for any help and insight, I think Monday might be the last day I can get the dealership folks to take a closer look at the battery’s health. Going to take a deeper dive into the info cwerdna posted as well.
 
Most likely the 12 volt battery is failing. If it's more than 3 years old, I suggest a new AGM type battery, fully charged before installation. Clear the codes (it may take several tries) after that, and see if any come back.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Most likely the 12 volt battery is failing. If it's more than 3 years old, I suggest a new AGM type battery, fully charged before installation. Clear the codes (it may take several tries) after that, and see if any come back.

Yes. This. Either you have a bad 12v battery, massive number of failures of unrelated systems, or a problem with the communication bus.

99% chance its the 12v battery. Swap that out asap with an AGM as Leftie suggested. If the dealer tells you to swap the battery, ask for an AGM. They're a lot more expensive but will work much better in the Leaf.
 
If you expect the car to only be in your possession a few more years, a new non-AGM battery will also work. Just make sure it gets charged fully before installation, because Leafs don't always charge their 12 volt batteries well. The OEM battery for newer Leafs isn't very good, just acceptable. Don't pay a dealership premium for one.
 
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