Why would anyone buy a nissan leaf right now???

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My reasons are likely quite different than most:

1. My off-grid backup needs are about 10-15 kwh for an average day.
2. A good Li based battery backup with BMS is about 45-50 cents/Watt-hr (no Tesla Powerwall 2 available at that time).
3. I had the chance to buy a super-clean 2012 leaf with 9 bars in January of last year for $9500 (probably did pay too much, but an SL that is like new in every way).
4. After research, decided that (here in Texas) my chance of getting a fresh 24 kwh battery under warranty was very good - which recently has occurred.
5. Bought the Leaf. Currently installing the solar charging system and designing the inverter system to power my 240 VAC off-grid sub-panel from the Leaf - admittedly somewhat of a crap shoot, but confident it will be done. I have a "PriUPS" system for power generation and this is not that much different.
6. As a result, I've grown to absolutely love the Leaf in every way for my "suburban" driving (my other vehicle is a Suburban). I've saved over $1000 in gasoline, feel good about using off peak electricity rather than gasoline and love the way the Leaf drives. My wife has gotten used to the "frog" and goes everywhere in it.

Don't know that I'd make the same decisions now with all the Tesla promises, but no regrets what-so-ever. So, there are many reasons why someone, somewhere might buy a Nissan Leaf right now!
 
Has anyone done a rigorous analysis of costs of operating two used vehicles?

This is my grosso modo (SWAG) take on my Suburban and Leaf:

Initial cost of Suburban - $40,000
Current value of Suburban - $20,000
Initial cost of Leaf - $10,000
Annual maintenance/insurance costs - 3% of initial cost/yr
"Depreciation" - use 50,000 miles life to zero value => Current Value/50,000 = $/miles (OK this is VERY simple)
Electrical costs - 10 cents/KWH; 4 miles/KWH
Gas costs - $2/gal average; 18 MPG
Miles per year = 10,000

Results:
Leaf = 26 cents/mile = $2600/year
Suburban = 63 cents/mile = $6300/year

Comments;
- The leaf costs are likely higher for most people because insurance seems relatively expensive for the Leaf, however, I have liability ONLY for my Leaf.
- Maintenance costs (% of costs) are likely higher for the Suburban than the Leaf, however I did use the new cost of the Suburban and the purchase cost of the Leaf.
- "Depreciation" can be calculated rigorously based on actual miles, age of vehicle and condition, but KISS, used current values and expected miles to essentially zero value to give a cents/mile. This IS the largest cost driver.
- Tax situation will change results (what else is new?).
- Did I forget a major expense that would significantly effect the relative amounts (about 2 times the cost/mile for the Suburban)?
- The point being (for me at least) is that annual savings are significantly greater than simply comparing "fuel" costs. I need both vehicles as my business requires heavy hauling at times. In fact, purchasing the Leaf has allowed me to postpone purchasing a new Suburban for 2-3 years - at a significant savings! It appears for my case that every mile I put on the Leaf, I save around 30 cents.

Welcome anyone's experience or pointers on a better comparison method!
 
I just bought an off-lease 2015 SV with Quick Charge and a couple other add-ons, with 3500 miles, for $11,200. I wouldn't buy a new Leaf (in fact, this is the newest car I've had since I first owned a car in 1986), and next year the deals on off-lease Leafs may be even better, but I was pleased with what I got for my money.
 
I have previously stated there has not been a time yet that the LEAF was worth buying but may have to change that statement since I am now seeing new 30 kwh 2016's selling for a price that is much closer to their actual value. But then again, I am still leasing and I am still right.

If you need details for my logic, ask me in 5 days
 
MMM wrote a good article explaining how to analyze the cost advantages of owning a BEV.

My total out-of-pocket cost with tax was about $6,000 more than he paid.

But I saved ~$7,000 on gas alone (not to mention the many other costs and headaches of owning an ICEV) in the last 5.5 years.

Opinion: How to buy a $35,000 brand-new electric car for under $14,000

...The only thing keeping more people from ditching gasoline is that people don’t realize how freaking amazing electric cars are, and they also don’t realize you can now get one for the less than the price of a Honda Fit.

Out of a dozen or more options on the market, I chose the Nissan Leaf because in my mind, it offered the best price/performance ratio and is the most widely available on both new and used markets across the U.S. As you’ll see below, it could actually be considered a cost-effective choice despite the rapidly changing technology...
my total out-of-pocket cost with tax will be $16,000, which is equivalent to buying a brand-new car with a list price of $14,775. This is right around the price of the cheapest new cars you can get in the U.S. these days...
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-to-buy-a-35000-brand-new-electric-car-for-under-14000-2016-11-02


The Nissan Leaf Experiment


In September 2016 I bought a brand-new Nissan Leaf SV with the new 25% bigger battery (30 kWh) This page will keep track of ongoing data, modifications, observations, and such...
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/the-nissan-leaf-experiment/
 
New low-100 mile range BEVs will be an even better deal after the Bolt arrives, as the price will have to drop below $30k (well below in the case of ~ 24kWh cars). For anything over $30k, why wouldn't you double your range and useful lifespan for < $7.5k more? After all, when the Bolt's battery is down to 33%, it will still have more range than the LEAF did when it was introduced.
 
edatoakrun said:
MMM wrote a good article explaining how to analyze the cost advantages of owning a BEV.

My total out-of-pocket cost with tax was about $6,000 more than he paid.

But I saved ~$7,000 on gas alone (not to mention the many other costs and headaches of owning an ICEV) in the last 5.5 years.

Opinion: How to buy a $35,000 brand-new electric car for under $14,000

...The only thing keeping more people from ditching gasoline is that people don’t realize how freaking amazing electric cars are, and they also don’t realize you can now get one for the less than the price of a Honda Fit.

Out of a dozen or more options on the market, I chose the Nissan Leaf because in my mind, it offered the best price/performance ratio and is the most widely available on both new and used markets across the U.S. As you’ll see below, it could actually be considered a cost-effective choice despite the rapidly changing technology...
my total out-of-pocket cost with tax will be $16,000, which is equivalent to buying a brand-new car with a list price of $14,775. This is right around the price of the cheapest new cars you can get in the U.S. these days...
http://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-to-buy-a-35000-brand-new-electric-car-for-under-14000-2016-11-02


The Nissan Leaf Experiment


In September 2016 I bought a brand-new Nissan Leaf SV with the new 25% bigger battery (30 kWh) This page will keep track of ongoing data, modifications, observations, and such...
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/the-nissan-leaf-experiment/


stay tuned for an article on how to lease a $33,700 LEAF for half off... (granted leasing not as lucrative as buying but it will do!!)
 
I haven't found a newer post with a similar title so I am resurrecting this one...
This question (which is beyond me) has been bugging my mind, and I have to ask ...

Why oh why on this flat ass Earth, would anyone (in their right ass mind) buy a (top of the line) Leaf SL rather than a baseline T Model 3.

Really... why? I must now.
 
... and my new (babied as ****) lizard battery replaced 2 years ago, is already down to 89% SOH 11% in 2 years ... wow ... and yes, I can tell by the range, I am keeping a very close record, and will share here soon
 
valem said:
I haven't found a newer post with a similar title so I am resurrecting this one...
This question (which is beyond me) has been bugging my mind, and I have to ask ...

Why oh why on this flat ass Earth, would anyone (in their right ass mind) buy a (top of the line) Leaf SL rather than a baseline T Model 3.

Really... why? I must now.
The simple answer is net price point. The loaded '19 Leaf SL 40KWh I purchased had a net price slightly under $25K factoring in Federal Tax Credit, Utility rebate, and some special pricing negotiated between Nissan and the utility company. That's in a state that all but penalizes for purchasing an EV, not incentivising them. Show me a comparable price point on any new M3 and would be happy to consider it.

The more complex answer involves some body hardware choices and the rear wheel drive of that base M3 that might be fine for sunny California but I already know is a bad idea in this cold snowy climate with highly corrosive road conditions. The reality is the M3 is closer to $50K to make it work for my needs. That's an investment level that way too high for my daily commuter given the ghetto neighborhood where I commonly work.
 
valem said:
I haven't found a newer post with a similar title so I am resurrecting this one...
This question (which is beyond me) has been bugging my mind, and I have to ask ...

Why oh why on this flat ass Earth, would anyone (in their right ass mind) buy a (top of the line) Leaf SL rather than a baseline T Model 3.

Really... why? I must now.

I can afford either car and I bought a 2019Leaf SL Plus rather than the Tesla Model 3. I’m on my 3rd Leaf. Test drove the M3 and I was not impressed with the driver User Interface. It was too clunky and foreign. The Leaf interface is familiar. Try turning on wipers on the Tesla. You just use the big center mounted computer screen.

1- I fit in the Leaf much better. I had trouble getting in and out of the Model 3.
2- The Leaf is easier to maneuver and park in parking lots
3- Currently Leaf still has the full $7,500 Federal Tax Credit vs $1,875 for Tesla.
4- dealer competition enables discounting Leaf and no discounting on Tesla.
5- The Leaf is much more “nimble”
6- the M3 I test drove had poor fitting body panels, water in the tail lights. Lousy fit and finish.
7- if you want anything other than Black in a Tesla there’s a $1500-$2000 surcharge
8- I DON’T TRUST THAT TESLA WILL BE AROUND IN 3 years.
 
We loved all our test drives in the model 3. Great drivers car. But the Leaf SL Eplus is a better fit for us. The model 3 has some pretty cool advantages but the Leaf Eplus SL has some as well.

Nissan over Tesla.

- Hatchback
- Easier ingress and egress. (Sits higher)
- Heated steering wheel for sore 56 year old hands
- Homelink standard. (Not really important for us but nice)
- Heat pump so less energy use in mildly cold temps...like where we live in BC.
- E-Pedal. (One of our favourite things about the Leaf.
- all around 360 view camera display
- pretty much no vampire drain. Important for us as we leave the country for a month or more at a time without being able to plug in.
- rear cross traffic alert avoidance system.
- much quieter than the model 3.

For us brand loyalty also plays a little role. After almost 4 years our leaf has been bulletproof. Screwed together pretty good.

Jmho
 
The SL Plus is still cheaper after discounts then the SR+. Whether you think it is better or worse is a matter of taste.

SLPlus after federal discount (ignoring state programs and state taxes) can be had for 33k (sometimes less). SR+ is hard to get into for under 40K. I wouldn’t say the SR is comparable.

Even if it’s legacy, repairs are much easier to get in many parts of the US, insurance is cheaper, repairs cheaper and has held high ground on consumer reports reliability.
 
valem said:
I haven't found a newer post with a similar title so I am resurrecting this one...
This question (which is beyond me) has been bugging my mind, and I have to ask ...

Why oh why on this flat ass Earth, would anyone (in their right ass mind) buy a (top of the line) Leaf SL rather than a baseline T Model 3.

Really... why? I must now.

Price. LEAFs are simply cheaper to buy PERIOD. We can discuss MSRP but other than Tesla, that doesn't apply to any other EV. There are also incentives at the state and local levels that frequently exclude Teslas.

FYI; I wouldn't get an SL simply because it adds things I am unwilling to pay for.
 
valem said:
... and my new (babied as ****) lizard battery replaced 2 years ago, is already down to 89% SOH 11% in 2 years ... wow ... and yes, I can tell by the range, I am keeping a very close record, and will share here soon
Certainly not doubting your observation. Trying to understand the common factors behind your experience. Can you elaborate as to location, charging habits, driving usage cycle, etc...? It would help put this complaint into context.
 
All very interesting and valid points.
I wanted to point out that I'm comparing the SL because IMO any Tesla surpasses any car's top of the line by a long shot. But that's just my opinion, I can see how some prefer the look and feel of what they're already familiar with.
True that the LEAF still has the full $7500 tax credit, and TBH there's a reason Tesla passed the 200k mark a year ago, and Nissan will pass that mark in another year or two. So that kind of already kills my comparison... right there... lol

But personally I would rather a used a used Model S for around 40k rather than a new M3 ...

I've been driving in Central FL, as was the previous owner that got the battery replaced.

I will post every single charge and discharge cycle; yes, I am noting down all Leafspy data and dash data every time I charge...
 
Flyct said:
valem said:
8- I DON’T TRUST THAT TESLA WILL BE AROUND IN 3 years.

Disclaimer: The following is simply my opinion and my belief...

Tesla (the company) has way too much value and assets to not be around in 3 years. If the market cap drops too much it will be bought. It owns way too much to just go away. I don't need to get into details here.

But most importantly (again only based on my opinion and belief) you better hope that Tesla sticks around if you like driving EVs.
Not a single auto maker cares for or wants to make and sell EVs. Neither do dealerships. Tesla is creating the competition in the EV world because other automakers want a piece of the EV pie.
Remove Tesla, and there's no reason any auto manufacturer would continue competing against themselves.
All existing car companies are combustion engine companies, they don't make any money selling EVs when they have to buy all the drive-train components from other companies
 
8- I DON’T TRUST THAT TESLA WILL BE AROUND IN 3 years.
[/quote]

Disclaimer: The following is simply my opinion and my belief...

Tesla (the company) has way too much value and assets to not be around in 3 years. If the market cap drops too much it will be bought. It owns way too much to just go away. I don't need to get into details here.

But most importantly (again only based on my opinion and belief) you better hope that Tesla sticks around if you like driving EVs.
Not a single auto maker cares for or wants to make and sell EVs. Neither do dealerships. Tesla is creating the competition in the EV world because other automakers want a piece of the EV pie.
Remove Tesla, and there's no reason any auto manufacturer would continue competing against themselves.
All existing car companies are combustion engine companies, they don't make any money selling EVs when they have to buy all the drive-train components from other companies
[/quote]

You could not be more correct. The LEAF exists only because Nissan backs it and uses the credits. Tesla will not go away and if they do so do all EVs.
 
Tesla has made, and currently makes, superior electric cars compared to Nissan. Anyone who cannot acknowledge that is either uninformed or stubbornly stuck to the Nissan Brand. Tesla is not going out of business and to say it is, is grasping at straws. One could also say that Nissan will stop producing electric cars as well... Might as well just say you are a Nissan fanatic or fan boy. Nothing wrong with that really. Just admit that, no matter what, you will choose Nissan. No need to rationalize then. :)
 
Tesla has made, and currently makes, superior electric cars compared to Nissan. Anyone who cannot acknowledge that is either uninformed or stubbornly stuck to the Nissan Brand



Tesla makes cars that have superior performance to the Leaf. That is unquestioned. Tesla does not, however, make a car that is in the same price range as the Leaf and is also as comfortable. They do not make a car in the same price range (and possibly not at all) that is as disability-friendly and older-driver-friendly as the Leaf, either. Maybe in the future Tesla will make a car that is affordable, has easy entry and exit, and a heated steering wheel. (Windows that don't seal the doors closed in frigid weather would also be helpful.) Until then, the Model 3 and the Leaf are apples and oranges, and some people just prefer apples, while others prefer oranges. Until Tesla fa, er, aficionados stop trying to force-feed orange lovers applesauce, we will continue to regard you with some skepticism and wariness.
 
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