SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Coal and Nuclear Beggars

Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:46 am

https://www.utilitydive.com/news/ohios- ... ot/559368/

"the bill would set aside about $50 million a year through 2030 to subsidize two large coal units built by the Ohio Valley Electric Corp in 1955"

"Approved Tuesday in the GOP dominated Ohio House by a 51 to 38 vote, mostly along partisan lines, the measure would provide FirstEnergy Solutions, owner of two Ohio nuclear plants, with about $1.1 billion through 2027"
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

Tortoisehead77
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:59 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2018
Leaf Number: 307925
Location: Portland, Oregon USA

Re: Coal and Nuclear Beggars

Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:51 am

I'm no environmentalist. I drive the Leaf because I like electric motors better than ICE. However, even I can see that this is a terrible idea. The free market should dictate energy sources and consumption. Why does the federal government get to decide who wins and who loses?

Natural gas and renewables are often cheaper than coal and nuclear.

If you charge your Leaf in Ohio, does that mean it's really just a coal-powered car?

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Coal and Nuclear Beggars

Thu Jul 25, 2019 9:11 am

More ...
https://arstechnica.com/science/2019/07 ... enewables/

To balance the budget, the subsidy will mostly be paid for by
1. Eliminating conservation and efficiency subsidies
2. Chopping renewables subsidies and renewable energy targets

Got that, folks ? Subsidizing conservation and renewable energy is 'government over-reach' but subsidizing nuclear and coal is not.

Repukes at work, when they are not busy pursuing ...[mod edited] agendas.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

TheLostPetrol
Posts: 89
Joined: Thu Jul 13, 2017 8:19 am
Delivery Date: 21 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 307105
Location: Greater Chicagoland

Re: Coal and Nuclear Beggars

Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:32 pm

Tortoisehead77 wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:51 am
If you charge your Leaf in Ohio, does that mean it's really just a coal-powered car?
Generating electriy from coal emits 0.94 kg of CO2 per kWh (https://carbonpositivelife.com/co2-per- ... ectricity/).
The burning of gasoline emits 8.9 kg of CO2 per gallon (https://www.eia.gov/environment/emissio ... l_mass.php), less if there's ethanol in it whose CO2 you don't count, more because there are emissions from the gasoline's production and transportation.

So, if a "coal-powered" Leaf gets 4.0 mi/kWh, that's (0.94 kg/kWh)/(4.0 mi/kWh)=0.23 kg/mi, making the Leaf responsible for emitting as much CO2 as an ICE emits at (8.9 kg/gal)/(0.23 kg/mi)=38 mi/gal.

In the winter, I used to get 35 mi/gal on my Yaris. My Leaf, at 3.5 winter mi/kWh, would be, if charged only with coal-fired electricy, equivalent to 33 mi/gal.

In the summer, I used to get 40 mi/gal on my Yaris. My Leaf, at 5.0 summer mi/kWh, would be, if charged only with coal-fired elecricity, equivalent to 47 mi/gal.

I've heard that the city of Naperville, IL, signed a contract some time ago to purchase solely coal-fired electricity. Just in case that's true, I never recharge in Naperville. My electricity's from Commonwealth Edison, and last I heard, was only about 32% coal-generated.
Last edited by TheLostPetrol on Mon Jul 29, 2019 4:59 pm, edited 3 times in total.
2018-02-21 Used 2015 LEAF SV Mfd 2014-07 In-serv 2015-02-27
Date mi AHr SOH Hx QC L1/L2
2018-02-21 26,938 60.22 97.0 90.7 1 988
2018-07-01 31,601 58.05 93.5 87.0 11 1223
2018-10-01 35,428 55.63 89.6 82.1 16 1440
2019-08-01 45,923 56.20 90.5 83.3 23 1968

Tortoisehead77
Posts: 62
Joined: Fri Jun 14, 2019 9:59 am
Delivery Date: 31 May 2018
Leaf Number: 307925
Location: Portland, Oregon USA

Re: Coal and Nuclear Beggars

Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:41 pm

TheLostPetrol wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:32 pm
Tortoisehead77 wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 8:51 am
If you charge your Leaf in Ohio, does that mean it's really just a coal-powered car?
I've seen somewhere that coal emits 0.94 kg of CO2 per kWh of electricity(1).
The burning of gasoline emits 8.9 kg of CO2 (https://www.eia.gov/environment/emissio ... l_mass.php), less if there ethanol in it whose CO2 you don't count, more because there are emissions from the gasoline's production and transportation.

So, if a "coal-powered" Leaf gets 4.0 mi/kWh, that's (0.94 kg/kWh)/(4.0 mi/kWh)=0.23 kg/mi, making the Leaf responsible for emitting as much CO2 as an ICE emits at (8.9 kg/gal)/(0.23 kg/mi)=38 mi/gal.

In the winter, I used to get 35 mi/gal on my Yaris. My Leaf, at 3.5 winter mi/kWh, would be, if charged only with coal-fired electricy, equivalent to 33 mi/gal.

In the summer, I used to get 40 mi/gal on my Yaris. My Leaf, at 5.0 summer mi/kWh, would be, if charged only with coal-fired elecricity, equivalent to 47 mi/gal.

I've heard that the city of Naperville, IL, signed a contract some time ago to purchase all-coal-fired electricity. Just in case that's true, I never recharge in Naperville. My electricity's from Commonwealth Edison, and last I heard, was only about 32% coal-generated.

(1) Needs citation.
Thanks. This is good information.

If idiot politicians will get out of the way, then most power sources will be natural gas or renewable in the future. In many states this is already the case.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13472
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Coal and Nuclear Beggars

Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:55 pm

I've seen somewhere that coal emits 0.94 kg of CO2 per kWh of electricity(1).

"I've seen somewhere" isn't a great source. Assuming it's correct, though, I don't think the above takes into account all of the emissions (for example the emissions from refineries) produced by the Yaris, while it does for the Leaf.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Coal and Nuclear Beggars

Mon Jul 29, 2019 3:51 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Mon Jul 29, 2019 2:55 pm
I've seen somewhere that coal emits 0.94 kg of CO2 per kWh of electricity(1).

"I've seen somewhere" isn't a great source. Assuming it's correct
-
It is a fair number, and good enough because coal carbon intensity varies by type of coal from about 0.8 - 1.0 kg Co2/kWh. It also potentially varies by the electric plant. E..g., Japan has much more efficient reactors than the US. The US plants are pretty universally bad, converting ~ 33% of heat content to electricity.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

Oilpan4
Gold Member
Posts: 958
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Coal and Nuclear Beggars

Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:32 pm

Well boiling water reactors tend to be more efficient and blow up, that's what Japan has.
Pressurized water reactors are more widely used in the US, aren't as efficient and as far as I know a pressurized water reactor hasn't blown up.

I actually lived near and had been to fukushima nuclear power station.

My leaf is largely coal and natural gas powered when I charge at night.
If I charge during the day the wind farm to my south hits 100% rated output for a minimum of several hours a day, a lot of days it runs full power all day. Then the leaf is mostly wind powered.

My leaf gets 3.6 miles per kwh in the winter, some days it's as low as 2.8. Around 4 most of the time in warmer months, but this month, not pulling the trailer and barely using the air conditioning I'm at 4.8 miles per kwh over an average of 1,050 miles for july.
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
Chargers: Panasonic brick moded for 240v, duosida 16a 240v and a 10kw setec portable CHAdeMO
Location: 88103

Oilpan4
Gold Member
Posts: 958
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:51 pm
Delivery Date: 10 May 2018
Leaf Number: 004270

Re: Coal and Nuclear Beggars

Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:59 am

Looks like this is going forward.
https://www.southerncompany.com/newsroo ... ogtle.html

Doesn't seem very stalled if they put the containment dome on last month and are now ordering fissile fuel.
2011 white SL leaf with 2014 batt.
Chargers: Panasonic brick moded for 240v, duosida 16a 240v and a 10kw setec portable CHAdeMO
Location: 88103

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