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LeftieBiker said:
2016 IONIQ/Soul EV owners did not detect any degradation after 3 years

That just isn't true. The Soul EV has suffered from similar degradation issues to the Leaf.
Sorry to hear about Soul (I do not track those models/forums, just assumed as they have the similar design), although those who reported might be confused with low temp range loss. Also, Soul is so, so chunky, one may think they lost battery once they get on highway and drive @ 70 mph - the range would drop like a dead fly on the highway on those poor Souls :). New Soul EV would have the same liquid cooled battery as Kona/Niro, just do not count on much of highway range on it. New 38.3kWh Ioniq would remain air cooled though. But no any reports of battery degradation for IONIQ EV for sure.
 
LeftieBiker said:
I'm assuming that the Ionic has liquid cooling for the battery. The Soul uses (used?) air cooling.
Ionicq battery is air cooled: forced with fan + HVAC intake or just draft through HVAC intake to outside, also has heater for really cold situations. So battery air cooling/heating in Ioniq is the same as air cooling/heating for passengers - battery shares the same temp as humans (we both like the same temp range).

I do take precautions like not parking on open sun to roast my car during hottest days, plenty of trees at work parking and car is cool when it is time to go back home.
 
Ionicq battery is air cooled: forced with fan + HVAC intake or just draft through HVAC intake to outside, also has heater for really cold situations. So battery air cooling/heating in IONIQ is the same as air cooling/heating for passengers - battery shares the same temp as humans (we both like the same temp range).

Uh oh...
 
I have seen a couple articles/you tube channels suggesting that Kona and Niro actually use a 67 kWh battery, of which they only make 64 kWh available. One video showed the Kona using 66 kWh over a 310 mile range test.

For those with the car, does that jive with experience?
 
LeftieBiker said:
2016 IONIQ/Soul EV owners did not detect any degradation after 3 years

That just isn't true. The Soul EV has suffered from similar degradation issues to the Leaf.
I came across this post (7 months old) regarding old Kia Soul EV and its battery degradation posted my owner on speakev.https://www.speakev.com/threads/hyundai-ioniq-electric-range.21219/post-2481292
No need to click on the link, here is the post text I found very intriguing. "Oct 14" means it was first Kia Soul EV sold in US market started in Oct 2014:
"I have just had my Kia Soul tested by Kia
My car is an ex demo car Oct 14. When I bought the car 21mths ago it had 3500 miles on the clock
It now has 54500
My daily commute is 68 miles, the soul currently shows a range of between 70-75 this time of year. Based on this the car is rapid charged every single weekday on top of this it is charged too 100% every single weeknight. It is always filled too 100% and most days is emptied between 1-10%. My car is driven and used outside what people say is good for battery life.
But Kia tested my car 4 weeks ago and it shows 98% cap. Like was mentioned, having a Buffer and TBM makes a big difference to battery health. I think the Soul has 31.5 battery with 27 usable. When I plug in my Torque Pro the car shows me it is 100%, but TP says its only 95%
"
Based on this post and amount of "abuse" it took daily for over 3 years - it is one hell of the EV battery, folks would love to have the same battery "non-degradation" on any other maker EV car. ;)
 
First, constant QC charges seem to boost at least the indicated SOH. Second, note that the car was tested "By Kia." Last, there are plenty of reports of lost capacity and range in the Soul forum on this site. If I could find a report by a 2014 Leaf owner with similar stats, would you stop believing that Leaf batteries have issues with degradation...?
 
LeftieBiker said:
First, constant QC charges seem to boost at least the indicated SOH. Second, note that the car was tested "By Kia." Last, there are plenty of reports of lost capacity and range in the Soul forum on this site. If I could find a report by a 2014 Leaf owner with similar stats, would you stop believing that Leaf batteries have issues with degradation...?
I do not believe or care about Leaf batteries at all. I never made any remarks about other EV batteries degradation, but the one made by Hyundai. This is Kia EV thread, so I discuss their EV related subjects. Kia owners use TP (Torque Pro) app and it displays more info than Leaf Spy would ever show, so he knew, very well, what his battery state was. "tested "By Kia." - simply means dealer confirmed his own finding during routine test while visiting dealer, same tests also offered by Nissan dealers for their EV cars. In fact, dealer test shown 98%, while in reality it was no degradation at all as his internal BMS 95% vs. display 100% is what any new battery would show, because of Hyundai allocated 5% buffer officially, but unofficially it is even more and more is merrier. Similarly, low buffer exists (5%) which makes riding to literally zero miles left an ordinary routine, nothing like freaky "!!! the sky are falling!!!" experience on other EVs. The reason I posted info about Hyundai EV batteries was to misspell much of the concerns with this issue on EV, that many folks keep bringing up when it comes to EV.
 
If you want to, ah, dispel concerns about Kia 30kwh air cooled packs then you need to gather more evidence than just one case. Even there, do you know the climate the 98% car resides in...?
 
LeftieBiker said:
If you want to, ah, dispel concerns about Kia 30kwh air cooled packs then you need to gather more evidence than just one case. Even there, do you know the climate the 98% car resides in...?
You keep referring to Hyundai batteries as air cooled, like it is the same as Leaf. This is not accurate - Hyundai batteries in Kia Soul EV and Ioniq EV are actively managed for cooling and heating. This is one of the biggest reason I did not find a simple complain on Hyundai EV forums about any battery degradation. So apparently Hyundai is doing it right. Anyone coming from Leaf would discover Ioniq EV experience as "anti-EV" - meaning all the usual negatives about EV they learned during Leaf ownership are absent, only positive experiences ahead. For me, Ioniq EV is a living proof - EV ownership could be very positive experience, not just the fact of saving on gas.
 
The Leaf battery is "passively air cooled," at least until 2018 when there is little of that as well. The Hyundai battery in question is forced-air cooled, but isn't that only when QC is in use? I don't remember. At any rate, I'm not trying to cloud the issue. I can remember reading complaints about capacity loss in the Soul EV forum here. Try reading about it there. meanwhile, here are a couple of links:


https://www.insideevsforum.com/community/index.php?threads/kia-soul-ev.169/


https://www.mykiasoulev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=434&start=310
 
LeftieBiker said:
The Hyundai battery in question is forced-air cooled, but isn't that only when QC is in use? I don't remember.
It is active during QC and depending on battery temp during normal operation, just like any other BTM would operate.

BTW, here is another owner that used his Ioniq EV for , ah Good Lord, for Uber exclusively and put 80K in about 14 month. Battery or range was not even mentioned by him, except summer/winter differences. I saw some discussions about EV battery warranty and possible degradation on Hyundai forums, but not any talk about EV battery issues or actual cases of degradation as it is not on any owner list of issues.

https://www.ioniqforum.com/threads/1-year-80k-review.33288/
 
Air cooling in the 2018 Soul is insufficient to cool the pack w/o the car running during charging with A/C cranking. The Soul uses forced cabin air to cool the pack so if the car is charging when off, it will not cool.

I know a guy who has done several road trips including San Diego a month or so ago from WA and he has A/C set to 62º and has seat heater running to tolerate...
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
I know a guy who has done several road trips including San Diego a month or so ago from WA and he has A/C set to 62º and has seat heater running to tolerate...

:lol:

I had to laugh at this one. I normally turn on the heated seats when it gets below 40. 62 would feel great, but I set the A/C to 72 to save energy.
 
As others have noted, there were quite a few reports in the Soul topic and on that forum about excessive battery degradation in heat, and IIRR AVTA also found that the Soul wasn't much better than the LEAF, at least in Phoenix. The master page for all those tests is here: https://avt.inl.gov/vehicle-type/all-powertrain-architecture?page=1

Unfortunately there seems to be a problem with the individual pages at the moment, but here's an old post from the Soul topic that references the results after 11 months: https://avt.inl.gov/vehicle-type/all-powertrain-architecture?page=1

In short, the only ATM method that seems to have a major effect on degradationis liquid cooling, and even that has to be well done - Ford's for the Focus apparently wasn't (the set temp for cooling was apparently too high), but GM's and Tesla's were, and I forget how BMW fared. I'd expect the current Korean battery packs, which do have liquid cooling, to do better than the 1st gen. Soul.

OT: In my ICE I normally don't use the A/C until the car's OAT gauge is over 84 degrees and that will be sustained for at least 20 minutes or more, but on my recent trip up to Mt. Shasta and back, along the Central Valley in I-5, I was curious on the way back to see just how high a temp would be reasonably comfortable using only the fan. Note - I bought my first car with A/C back in the '80s specifically to deal with high Central Valley summer temps, as I'd done enough sweltering in non-A/C equipped cars while driving across or along it.

Anyway, I found that shirtless, just wearing shorts and sockless sandals (my normal hot weather driving attire, and with cloth seats which I insist on), I was OK right up to the car's OAT gauge reading 100 briefly. It was between 93 and 99 from Redding all the way down I-5 to Dunnigan. Note, this isn't the official shade temp, and it was actually a relatively cool summer afternoon by Central Valley standards. It's also dry heat, so there's no comparison to areas with similar temps and high humidity. But the heat was making me drowsy (and I'd been awake since around 1 a.m. and this was mid-afternoon), so after seeing 100 for a brief period around Red Bluff I turned the A/C on and was a lot more alert, not to mention happier!

One noticeable advantage of a PEV over an ICE is at rest stops in high temps. I got so drowsy that I still needed to needed to pull off and take a nap at the Dunnigan rest area, but this is difficult/impossible for me in high temps, and leaving the engine idling to run the A/C while I'm trying to take a nap isn't something I want to do. A PEV could just run the A/C while it was charging, and this wouldn't be an issue. End OT.
 
Folks who reside is crazy hot zones like Arizona, Texas, Florida have only one choice - Tesla. Although, Tesla drain the battery when not in use - Tesla would maintain battery even when turned off or in storage/parking. Nothing else can deal with this kind of excessive heat. Everybody should choose what is right for his/her situation. In North-East or North-West USA the excessive heat is not an issue, so the choices are plenty more.
 
Leaf15 said:
Folks who reside is crazy hot zones like Arizona, Texas, Florida have only one choice - Tesla. Although, Tesla drain the battery when not in use - Tesla would maintain battery even when turned off or in storage/parking. Nothing else can deal with this kind of excessive heat. Everybody should choose what is right for his/her situation. In North-East or North-West USA the excessive heat is not an issue, so the choices are plenty more.

The Bolt also has effective active liquid cooling. So two choices at least.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Leaf15 said:
Folks who reside is crazy hot zones like Arizona, Texas, Florida have only one choice - Tesla. Although, Tesla drain the battery when not in use - Tesla would maintain battery even when turned off or in storage/parking. Nothing else can deal with this kind of excessive heat. Everybody should choose what is right for his/her situation. In North-East or North-West USA the excessive heat is not an issue, so the choices are plenty more.

The Bolt also has effective active liquid cooling. So two choices at least.
As does the Kia Niro EV.
And the Audi eTron.
And the Jaguar iPace.
And yes, a Leaf still makes sense for some people in Arizona, Texas and Florida. Less vampire drain for long duration parking at the airport. Yes, road trips are unrealistic. And the battery will degrade faster than it would in the PNW. Yet if 8 year warranty is good enough, still might be the best choice.
 
What has become apparent is that a good CE is vital in hot areas. Poor CE means greater rates of degradation as the temperature rises with the "reasonable to critical" temperature being lower.
 
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