LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Apparently the Leaf is not a big seller in the US these days

Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:22 am

I'm not trying to take sides, but Tesla batteries have indeed caught fire on multiple occasions. We have yet, AFAIK, to see a confirmed case of a Leaf battery fire. There is one possible Leaf battery fire in a YouTube video, with no further information on the actual cause. The higher performance of Tesla battery packs comes from using a more volatile battery chemistry, with more individual cells, than the Nissan packs. The battery grounding plate recall mentions no actual fires, just the hypothetical possibility for one. WetEV has often tried to associate liquid cooling systems with battery fires, but AFAIK has provided no actual evidence of this having happened. Let's try to keep our views grounded in facts, folks, or at least labeled as opinions...
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Evoforce
Posts: 919
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: Apparently the Leaf is not a big seller in the US these days

Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:27 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:22 am
I'm not trying to take sides, but Tesla batteries have indeed caught fire on multiple occasions. We have yet, AFAIK, to see a confirmed case of a Leaf battery fire. There is one possible Leaf battery fire in a YouTube video, with no further information on the actual cause. The higher performance of Tesla battery packs comes from using a more volatile battery chemistry, with more individual cells, than the Nissan packs. The battery grounding plate recall mentions no actual fires, just the hypothetical possibility for one. WetEV has often tried to associate liquid cooling systems with battery fires, but AFAIK has provided no actual evidence of this having happened. Let's try to keep our views grounded in facts, folks, or at least labeled as opinions...
Still trying to steer conversations? I know I spoke the facts... We don't want any of them to catch fire and I think both companies are doing a good job at mitigating that. It is in the best interest of all, that all EV's improve as much as possible for BEV adoption.
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

cwerdna
Posts: 9728
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Apparently the Leaf is not a big seller in the US these days

Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:19 am

LeftieBiker wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:22 am
The battery grounding plate recall mentions no actual fires, just the hypothetical possibility for one.
I received my notice for this today. It makes no mention of fire.

It says
Due to a manufacturing issue, which has since been corrected, certain LEAF vehicle's lithium-ion battery bonding plates may not meet Nissan internal standards for corrosion resistance. The plates may corrode and in some areas where road salt is extensively used, could break. In rare cases, during vehicle servicing, if both plates break, the battery cover plate is removed and the vehicle is left in READY mode, a technician could be exposed to electric shock if all EV servicing instructions are not followed. Although no such incidents have been reported to Nissan, this voluntary service campaign is being conducted as a preventative measure out of an abundance of caution.
A hypothetical possibility of fire seems to have been invented by Evoforce in one of his earlier replies.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Apparently the Leaf is not a big seller in the US these days

Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:26 am

The Tesla fleet has had fires at about 1/10 the rate of the ICE fleet. When the LEAF can replace a Tesla instead of requiring an ICE in reserve to handle drives the LEAF cannot THEN one can argue that a safety advantage exists. And then the argument will be more than a stretch because the Tesla are high powered sports cars that get driven different than the LEAF fleet. No other high powered car comes anywhere *close* to the Tesla fire, or overall safety record. WetEV is generating FUD and Cwerdna is doing his usual job of muddying the waters with anecdotes.

Incidentally, I read the other day a fellow who buys salvage Teslas say that those cases he has seen of "battery fires" actually originated in the brakes from overheating related to a stuck piston/pin from lack of use.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

Evoforce
Posts: 919
Joined: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:58 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Feb 2015
Location: Fountain Hills Arizona

Re: Apparently the Leaf is not a big seller in the US these days

Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:30 am

cwerdna wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 1:19 am
LeftieBiker wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:22 am
The battery grounding plate recall mentions no actual fires, just the hypothetical possibility for one.
I received my notice for this today. It makes no mention of fire.

It says
Due to a manufacturing issue, which has since been corrected, certain LEAF vehicle's lithium-ion battery bonding plates may not meet Nissan internal standards for corrosion resistance. The plates may corrode and in some areas where road salt is extensively used, could break. In rare cases, during vehicle servicing, if both plates break, the battery cover plate is removed and the vehicle is left in READY mode, a technician could be exposed to electric shock if all EV servicing instructions are not followed. Although no such incidents have been reported to Nissan, this voluntary service campaign is being conducted as a preventative measure out of an abundance of caution.
A hypothetical possibility of fire seems to have been invented by Evoforce in one of his earlier replies.
You are hilarious also and trying to mislead. I was told by service that a possible short because of this could lead to fire as well as what you listed. Just because it did not say that in the notice does not mean that it is not possible. After all, Nissan has a bad enough battery reputation. They are not going to put it in writing that a short could lead to fire in their battery... but service was verbally able to tell me this. More power to Nissan for making this service campaign to correct something that could be very bad for BEV's and their adoption. Newer Leafs are apparently not a part of this service campaign.
*2011 Leaf 1 bought 2/28/15 @ 28,000ish mi 10 bar (8 bars @ 11/25/15 @ 37,453 ) (New lizard @ 39,275 mi @ 1/20/2016) Now 52,166 mi.
*Tesla Model S 61,000 mi
*2011 Leaf 2 bought 4/28/15 @ 24,000ish mi 12 bar (new lizard Dec. 2014 @ 22,273 mi) Now 35,485 mi

LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 13217
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Apparently the Leaf is not a big seller in the US these days

Tue Aug 06, 2019 3:34 am

A hypothetical possibility of fire seems to have been invented by Evoforce in one of his earlier replies.
I actually thought I saw that in the initial announcement. Either the wording was changed shortly thereafter or my memory was mislead by the er, flame war here.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

danrjones
Posts: 357
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: Apparently the Leaf is not a big seller in the US these days

Tue Aug 06, 2019 6:00 am

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:06 pm
We do the same thing with the usb cigarette lighter plug in to have 2 up front.

Kids have one of those usb blocks in the back for long rides. In some ways it’s easier than rear USB as they can keep it between them.
Indeed the 12v seems to put out more power

I have (had?) a igloo cooler that ran on the 12v plug. It melted the plug in my truck. Not sure that was suppose to happen, and igloo owes me a fix.

I am just nit picking on the USB issue. Love my leaf. And I'm sure I would love a tesla. There is always room to improve on almost any vehicle. Not sure why you guys need to fight over it. A true eV society needs a wide variety anyway. Right now I happen to think the leaf is the best looking EV in my price range. (Ok, I got a steal on it though) I love the hatchback look. This whole argument about which is best is silly. I really doubt fires among Leaf or Tesla are worse than ICE vehicles, and overall, EV's are all more reliable.

As long as people go in KNOWING the limitations on each EV, life can't be all that bad. I knew what I was getting.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 992
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Apparently the Leaf is not a big seller in the US these days

Tue Aug 06, 2019 7:02 am

The USB on our new Leaf is much more powerful then the Gen 1 Leaf USB. Yes, 2 USB's would have been nice, but for 99% of the time, its not an issue.

Outside of the US, it looked like Canada Leaf sales were down (in spite of some long waiting times), Norway is up, Europe is steady. Too soon for the new LATAM, Australia, and South East Asia markets to get much data. Anyone see data from the UK?

Overall car sales were weak last month. Also overall EV sales seem to have flattened. I wonder if we have hit a wall in terms of market penetration as Early adopters have moved over now.
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

tannerj
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:12 am

Re: Apparently the Leaf is not a big seller in the US these days

Wed Aug 07, 2019 2:25 am

I guess they prefer Teslas and Toyota Prius'.

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 992
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Apparently the Leaf is not a big seller in the US these days

Wed Aug 07, 2019 4:35 am

Leaf reported as best seller at dealerships in Ireland:

https://www.leinsterleader.ie/news/home ... -leaf.html
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

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