Berkeley, CA becoming first city in U.S. to ban natural gas in new buildings
- Thread starter iPlug
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iPlug
Well-known member
Is that actual consumption or net consumption after solar PV?SageBrush said:
wwhitney
Well-known member
Remember, Berkeley's policy only applies to new buildings. New buildings should last at least 50 years. So given the current climate situation, do you want to lock in 50 years of on-site natural gas consumption? Do you want to invest in expanding the natural gas distribution system? Or do you want to invest in expanding the electrical distribution system, which will hopefully be decarbonized over that 50 year time span?
Cheers, Wayne
Cheers, Wayne
Tortoisehead77
Well-known member
wwhitney said:
So, if I have an existing building in Berkeley I can add a gas line? I’m not so sure about that.
wwhitney
Well-known member
I expect practically all existing buildings here in Berkeley have gas lines already. And you can add to your gas piping within an existing building, e.g. for a new appliance. The prohibition starts next year, and applies only to gas distribution within a new building.Tortoisehead77 said:
See, e.g. https://www.berkeleyside.com/2019/07/17/natural-gas-pipes-now-banned-in-new-berkeley-buildings-with-some-exceptions
Cheers, Wayne
iPlug
Well-known member
iPlug said:
Very nice.SageBrush said:
GRA
Well-known member
Tortoisehead77 said:
Indeed they are cheaper, However, PG&E won't pass this cost savings onto the consumer, which is one of the reasons people should have the right to buy natural gas. PG&E, although a "regulated" utility, will have a monopoly. Of course, you can buy your own solar panels if you own a home.
[/quote]
^^^Could you fix the quoting? Community Choice Aggregation agreements are allowed, and my city among many others in PG&E land has opted for one.
From yesterday's S.F. Chronicle:
https://www.sfchronicle.com/busines...ties-poised-to-follow-Berkeley-s-14342117.php
WetEV
Well-known member
Oilpan4 said:
Unlimited choice, what would happen?
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/162/3859/1243.full
GRA
Well-known member
Oilpan4 said:
I'm not sure what you're referring to. PG&E (one of the three major IOUs in California) had a monopoly, and fought against allowing CCAs. Thankfully, they lost. We've already experienced what full utility deregulation can lead to here in California - does "Enron" ring any bells?
Enron a perfect example of limited or removal of choice, monopolize and gouge.
When you state is ran by professional criminals what did you expect to happen?
NM has lightly regulated electricity and our prices are consistent one of the 5 cheapest in the nation.
When you state is ran by professional criminals what did you expect to happen?
NM has lightly regulated electricity and our prices are consistent one of the 5 cheapest in the nation.
As usual you have no idea what you are blabbing about.Oilpan4 said:
Enron was able to exist once CA deregulated. The price jumps occurred due to manipulation of the markets, in concert with key transmission and generation operators.
As for NM, utilities do not do *anything* without the approval and consent of the state regulatory authority. Who do you think authorizes and mandates the transition to clean energy in the state ?
GRA
Well-known member
iPlug
Well-known member
Looks like Menlo Park may join Berkeley:
One month after Berkeley became the first city in America to ban natural gas in new buildings, a second Bay Area city is poised to take a similarly ambitious plunge to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by requiring cleaner, electric alternatives.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.me...n-phasing-out-natural-gas-from-buildings/amp/
And other nearby cities looking to do the same:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sf...ties-poised-to-follow-Berkeley-s-14342117.php
Noted in the article:
A study released by the California Codes and Standards program found that, on average, it costs around $6,000 less to build an all-electric single-family home than it does to build a mixed fuel home with natural gas. The savings come from not having to hook up natural gas infrastructure or pipe it to the home, said Rachel Kuykendall, senior program manager at Sonoma Clean Power, which has worked with other local groups to offer $5,000 to homeowners affected by the 2017 wildfires to rebuild their homes so they run only on electricity.
One month after Berkeley became the first city in America to ban natural gas in new buildings, a second Bay Area city is poised to take a similarly ambitious plunge to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by requiring cleaner, electric alternatives.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.me...n-phasing-out-natural-gas-from-buildings/amp/
And other nearby cities looking to do the same:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.sf...ties-poised-to-follow-Berkeley-s-14342117.php
Noted in the article:
A study released by the California Codes and Standards program found that, on average, it costs around $6,000 less to build an all-electric single-family home than it does to build a mixed fuel home with natural gas. The savings come from not having to hook up natural gas infrastructure or pipe it to the home, said Rachel Kuykendall, senior program manager at Sonoma Clean Power, which has worked with other local groups to offer $5,000 to homeowners affected by the 2017 wildfires to rebuild their homes so they run only on electricity.
danrjones
Well-known member
I live in CA and I understand the intent, but would have mixed feelings.
My house has both. My water heater, my drier and my range are gas. I have solar too. If I had MORE solar I might be willing to go to a electric water heater, but I've found a gas drier or water heater are much faster. I've had both. And cooking on gas is far superior than electric. Would I give them up to save the world? Probably. But don't deny the fact that gas has advantages. Almost everyone I know who has had a electric and gas range in their life prefers gas. Its just a better way to cook. Good luck fire roasting peppers on an electric stove!
That said, it seems like 90% of the younger generations only know how to use a microwave, so maybe when I am dead its a moot point.
My house has both. My water heater, my drier and my range are gas. I have solar too. If I had MORE solar I might be willing to go to a electric water heater, but I've found a gas drier or water heater are much faster. I've had both. And cooking on gas is far superior than electric. Would I give them up to save the world? Probably. But don't deny the fact that gas has advantages. Almost everyone I know who has had a electric and gas range in their life prefers gas. Its just a better way to cook. Good luck fire roasting peppers on an electric stove!
That said, it seems like 90% of the younger generations only know how to use a microwave, so maybe when I am dead its a moot point.
Kudos for almost deciding to help save the world. I'm sure it was close.
iPlug
Well-known member
Interesting, my experiences have been very different.danrjones said:
Gas driers and electrics I have used both dried the same speed (both within 10% drying time and both a bit too fast that clothes were scalding hot and prematurely aged). Heat pump driers are half as fast but gentler. Is that what you are referring to? Would like to get one of these one day when they make large format US standard sizes that are reliable.
Our heat pump hybrid water heater replaced a gas one. Because it does both electric resistance and heat pump, it can heat water nearly as fast as our old gas water heater when needed and this has never been an issue. We leave it on heat pump only mode 99%+ of the time and only go hybrid when numerous guests are staying multi-day.
Induction is superior to gas in almost every way. I’ve used electric (resistance), gas, and induction (also electric). Others who have done the same almost always prefer induction. We roast vegetables in our small electric resistance Breville or same tech oven.danrjones said:
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