HELP deciding whether to buy a Leaf Plus

iPlug said:

We just priced it out. You are not entitled to your own numbers. The numbers are correct and stand. Your statement was incorrect. I don’t expect you to acknowledge that you were wrong but your mistaken impressions do not supercede the accurate data.

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I'm entitled to the numbers that fit what I was shopping for, not what YOU were shopping for OR what YOU think I needed.
The numbers i presented were what I would have bought. Since I would never buy a black car, your numbers make no sense for my case.
If you think my numbers for MY case were off, do correct them.



If you just need to feel like you win, fine, you win.

iPlug said:

We just priced it out. You are not entitled to your own numbers. The numbers are correct and stand. Your statement was incorrect. I don’t expect you to acknowledge that you were wrong but your mistaken impressions do not supercede the accurate data.

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Presuming the other tax credits and deductions were also available for the Tesla, I agree with you.
By the way, the standard color (no extra surcharge) for the Model 3 these days is Pearl White.

SageBrush said:

By the way, the standard color (no extra surcharge) for the Model 3 these days is Pearl White.

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Yes, but at that time Black was the standard color. To the best I can remember, a white with autopilot was about 40k at the time.

I agree it could be had for cheaper, but that wasn't what I was shopping for, which seems relevant to me. For me, it was more than double at that time. It was, for me. I never claimed to be presenting a scenario for anyone but me.

And I presented it because someone asked.

danrjones said:

I'm entitled to the numbers that fit what I was shopping for

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Irrelevant. You were challenged on the false statement "Even the base model 3 would have been significantly more than double what I paid for a new leaf."

danrjones said:

not what YOU were shopping for OR what YOU think I needed.

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Nope, your statement had nothing to do with you imagining I was shopping for something or that you imagined I thought you needed something.

danrjones said:

The numbers i presented were what I would have bought. Since I would never buy a black car, your numbers make no sense for my case.

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Irrelevant. Your statement I challenged was false. You admitted that the black Tesla was the base model and you knew if was $35k and did not come with autopilot. Moving the goal posts is not acceptable. Even so, your numbers were still false.

You start talking about features you like in your car. Again irrelevant. Your statement is still false.

danrjones said:

If you think my numbers for MY case were off, do correct them.

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Go back and read the posts, it was done for you, line item by line item.

Again, you said "Even the base model 3 would have been significantly more than double what I paid for a new leaf."

Again, that is false.

danrjones said:

If you just need to feel like you win, fine, you win.

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No winners, I just come here to learn from others in this collective, add my two cents, but get a lot more out of it than I put in.

There is only dishonor in you not acknowledging your false statement "Even the base model 3 would have been significantly more than double what I paid for a new leaf" then moving goals posts which are still wrong and making strange statements like "Add in almost double on my insurance, and it came out in my mind to way more than double the leaf. How about "greater than double"?"

It seems it might have come out in your mind that way, but I also pondered that the earth was flat for a moment, yet none of these thoughts count as facts and are equally wrong.

SageBrush said:

By the way, the standard color (no extra surcharge) for the Model 3 these days is Pearl White.

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Hah, was going to add that, but he's too lost in moving goal posts, so didn't want to muddy things too much more.

Somehow I thought they raised the base price, but indeed the base model currently is white at $35k MSRP.

I did indeed say base model 3, which I can see led to initial confusion, but when you asked I spelled out what I had priced out. To me white with auto pilot was minimum requirements and I explained that.

What you could have said is that I was correct for what I was looking at, but if someone went full base model at the time it would have been slightly under double. I think we can all agree on that.

Instead you went into attack mode. There really is no apples to apples comparison. They are different manufacturers in different segments and different styles. The leaf sv with tech package and all weather package has features the tesla does not, including adaptive cruise and a heat pump. The tesla with auto pilot has features the leaf does not. No real comparison aside from what one chooses to compare in their shopping, which is what I did.

I'm not sure if you just like arguing or if you thought I slighted tesla.

I'll tell you what, in order to get you to stop trying to shove a stick up my rear, I'll edit the original post to "more than double the white base model with auto pilot"

Super now we can move on. Sorry OP

danrjones said:

I'll tell you what, in order to get you to stop trying to shove a stick up my rear, I'll edit the original post to "more than double the white base model with auto pilot"

Super now we can move on. Sorry OP

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Nah, that would just be trying to change what you said. If you agree your statement was not correct, just say so.

Your changed statement would also be nearly useless for someone looking for a plug-in.

That would be like me saying I got a widget at a garage sale at a crazy low price. Great for me, not helpful for others looking for such widgets on the open market.

danrjones said:

I did indeed say base model 3, which I can see led to initial confusion, but when you asked I spelled out what I had priced out. To me white with auto pilot was minimum requirements and I explained that.

What you could have said is that I was correct for what I was looking at, but if someone went full base model at the time it would have been slightly under double. I think we can all agree on that.

Instead you went into attack mode. There really is no apples to apples comparison. They are different manufacturers in different segments and different styles. The leaf sv with tech package and all weather package has features the tesla does not, including adaptive cruise and a heat pump. The tesla with auto pilot has features the leaf does not. No real comparison aside from what one chooses to compare in their shopping, which is what I did.

I'm not sure if you just like arguing or if you thought I slighted tesla.

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The black Model 3 was the base model at the time you bought your Leaf. You were not asked to price out anything but your Leaf purchase. You just kept moving goal posts.

The fact that the Tesla Model 3 is a better vehicle, even at base $35k than your vehicle is irrelevant to your statement. That you disagree with that and the market, your particular preferences in a vehicle, and that you like certain features more than others and assign them different values, is still irrelevant to your statement.

Arguing is a pain - I don’t like it all. But not contesting this false information is more painful. Since I have both vehicles and did plenty of research on them, your false information was a disservice to prospective drivers that had to be pointed out.

The search engine here is pretty good. You can go back and see how critical I have been on the Tesla sales price side of the debate, more so than Leaf. SageBrush had a long thread on this very topic and I probably came off as a Leaf troll to him.

I advocate for things that plug in and renewable energy, but care little if that is achieved with a Leaf or Tesla. Hope to help people find the lower hanging fruit to that end. Fabricating price differences hurts that end, so your statement had to be contested as it remains not true.

If you wish to stop the discussion, that is fine. I refuse partisanship, it is not healthy to the EV cause.

Grow up man. It was not false information, I simply did not wordsmith it like a lawyer. I wasnt changing goal posts, I was explaining what I had priced out. What I priced out was what I priced out and I'm sorry if I did not describe it adequately for you to understand.

If you want to be technical, the model 3 in question was the "standard range model" not the base model. They had standard range and standard range plus. So technically you also are in error calling it the base model. There was no such thing on their website.

But I know what you meant and I'm not going to ream you for it.

Go on, keep spinning. You are still wrong as when you said it. The numbers stand on their own.

danrjones said:

Grow up man. It was not false information, I simply did not wordsmith it like a lawyer. I wasnt changing goal posts, I was explaining what I had priced out. What I priced out was what I priced out and I'm sorry if I did not describe it adequately for you to understand.

If you want to be technical, the model 3 in question was the "standard range model" not the base model. They had standard range and standard range plus. So technically you also are in error calling it the base model. There was no such thing on their website.

But I know what you meant and I'm not going to ream you for it.

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Go on, keep spinning. You are still wrong as when you said it. The numbers stand on their own. You said base model, not me. The base model was $35k, but you knew that.

Has nothing to do what I meant. I meant nothing. It’s what you said. Shame on you for claiming I said something else not you said.

For the umpteenth time you were only called on the false claim:

“Even the base model 3 would have been significantly more than double what I paid for a new leaf."

Keep the spin coming.

iPlug said:

Go on, keep spinning. You are still wrong as when you said it. The numbers stand on their own. You said base model, not me. The base model was $35k, but you knew that.

Has nothing to do what I meant. I meant nothing. It’s what you said. Keep the spin coming.

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Which trim was the "base" model? The standard range or standard range plus?

Don’t ask me, you said base. Base is cheapest model available. It was $35k when you bought you car. But you new that.

So you are saying now by base model, you meant not base model? Hmmm, makes sense.

Keep trying with those goalposts!

iPlug said:

Don’t ask me, you said base. Base is cheapest model available. It was $35k when you bought you car. But you new that. Keep trying with those goalposts!

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I'm asking because you know everything. Which was the base model? The standard range or standard range plus?

You said “Even the base model 3 would have been significantly more than double what I paid for a new leaf."

You want to redefine base model? This should be interesting.

iPlug said:

You said “Even the base model 3 would have been significantly more than double what I paid for a new leaf."

You want to redefine base model?

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And then I explained what I had priced out.

I'm asking what is the base model? Do we agree it was the standard range not standard range plus?

danrjones said:

iPlug said:

You said “Even the base model 3 would have been significantly more than double what I paid for a new leaf."

You want to redefine base model?

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And then I explained what I had priced out.

I'm asking what is the base model? Do we agree it was the standard range not standard range plus?

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No one cares what you priced out, only your false claims: “Even the base model 3 would have been significantly more than double what I paid for a new leaf."

You know by definition, the cheapest lowest end vehicle a company offers on a model is the base model. You also knew that was the black standard range at $35k.

It's not up for you or me or anyone to change the definition of base model. Keep those goal posts moving!

This may just be the immense imprecision of the current version of the language at work. It's why we need to be able to communicate clearly and with reasonable precision. Please drop the argument about the argument, folks. Both sides' positions are clear enough.

Agree.

iPlug said:

danrjones said:

iPlug said:

You said “Even the base model 3 would have been significantly more than double what I paid for a new leaf."

You want to redefine base model?

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And then I explained what I had priced out.

I'm asking what is the base model? Do we agree it was the standard range not standard range plus?

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No one cares what you priced out, only your false claims: “Even the base model 3 would have been significantly more than double what I paid for a new leaf."

You know by definition, the cheapest lowest end vehicle a company offers on a model is the base model. You also knew that was the black standard range at $35k.

You are not allowed to make up your own physics or definitions. Keep those goal posts moving!

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Exactly, it's the bottom trim with no options.
And when you questioned me I realized I had options I had priced out, said so (multiple times), even went back and fixed the post to include the options.

So what are we arguing about? I have amended my statement to be perfectly correct. I have corrected the error you pointed out. What is it you want?

Let's please not edit posts that change the entire argument and the rest of posts that follow. Sorry to give you a hard time, we both probably have better things to do. Suspect you are an advocate for the BEV community at large. Cheers.