DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 915
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: HELP deciding whether to buy a Leaf Plus

Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:32 am

Sagebrush,

I agree as well. Flat pricing/Tesla (and Saturn from long ago) is a more efficient model. As dealers make most of their money in service now, I think they would actually do better in the long run as well moving to a fixed price model (via fewer sales people). The haggle method only works well for non-standard goods with limited supply and difficult value propositions (like antiques).

My sadness is that Dealers have largely missed their opportunity to become the electric gas stations of the future, moving away from heavy sales teams to service and concessions/retail while the customers charge up. As they are good (but not perfectly) distributed across the country, it could have made an overnight supercharger equivalent.

None of the old line manufacturers could see their way through how Tesla has changed the business model. Sadly now I think its almost too late.

EA, EVgo, and maybe Chargepoint will take over (in the US) for BP, Shell, etc.. but in a more limited capacity than the historic stations. Most with home charging only get 10-20% of their juice off of public chargers. Often less. So we only need a quarter of the stalls that were needed in the fossil fuel era.
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

adavidw
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Aug 13, 2019 12:53 pm
Delivery Date: 13 Aug 2019
Leaf Number: 310525

Re: HELP deciding whether to buy a Leaf Plus

Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:42 pm

danrjones wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:27 am
But SCE also had a deal with Nissan where you could get X amount off a Leaf or Y amount off a Leaf plus, separate from the rebate. I had a flyer for it at the time.

BUT it was a bit of a scam / promotion BS. It turned out it was "X amount off MSRP". Well since I was WAY below MSRP, the dealers would not take it.
To clarify, the utility company rebate may be a promotion, but it's not a scam. It's a legit rebate offered by Nissan to qualifying customers (meaning customers of those partnered utilities). What is a scam is the dealer telling you that they can't discount any more because you're using the rebate.

It's true that the Nissan rebate can't be combined with any other incentives out of Nissan's pocket, since they want to limit what they are forking out to the dealer, but the dealer's pricing is completely independent of anything Nissan may or may not do. The same protectionist laws that keep manufacturers from selling directly also prohibit manufacturers from dictating the price that the dealer is selling at. If the dealer only wants to sell every car at MSRP or above, they can, and if the dealer wants to sell every car at only $1 more than their actual cost and make it up in volume, they can do that as well.

Now, in your case, if the dealer was already discounting their sales price significantly and couldn't use any other Nissan incentives to get it lower since you had the utility rebate, then what they said might make sense. But otherwise, it sounds like them trying to trick you into thinking there's no other room to move when the dealer's sitting on a huge potential profit on the sale. Good on you for walking. It's better that they learn that it's more profitable in the long run to be honest for a decent profit than to be deceptive for the occasional fat one.

I just purchased a Leaf last month with the $3500 utility rebate and a nice healthy dealer discount. Dealer was happy with the sale, as was I, so there's definitely better dealers out there.

danrjones
Posts: 320
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: HELP deciding whether to buy a Leaf Plus

Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:27 pm

Nice clarification, thank you

So the SCE / Nissan discount is still in effect? Anyone in SCE territory should definitely try and use it.
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

SageBrush
Posts: 4771
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: HELP deciding whether to buy a Leaf Plus

Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:05 pm

adavidw wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:42 pm
danrjones wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:27 am
But SCE also had a deal with Nissan where you could get X amount off a Leaf or Y amount off a Leaf plus, separate from the rebate. I had a flyer for it at the time.

BUT it was a bit of a scam / promotion BS. It turned out it was "X amount off MSRP". Well since I was WAY below MSRP, the dealers would not take it.
To clarify, the utility company rebate may be a promotion, but it's not a scam. It's a legit rebate offered by Nissan to qualifying customers (meaning customers of those partnered utilities). What is a scam is the dealer telling you that they can't discount any more because you're using the rebate.

It's true that the Nissan rebate can't be combined with any other incentives out of Nissan's pocket, since they want to limit what they are forking out to the dealer, but the dealer's pricing is completely independent of anything Nissan may or may not do. The same protectionist laws that keep manufacturers from selling directly also prohibit manufacturers from dictating the price that the dealer is selling at. If the dealer only wants to sell every car at MSRP or above, they can, and if the dealer wants to sell every car at only $1 more than their actual cost and make it up in volume, they can do that as well.

Now, in your case, if the dealer was already discounting their sales price significantly and couldn't use any other Nissan incentives to get it lower since you had the utility rebate, then what they said might make sense. But otherwise, it sounds like them trying to trick you into thinking there's no other room to move when the dealer's sitting on a huge potential profit on the sale. Good on you for walking. It's better that they learn that it's more profitable in the long run to be honest for a decent profit than to be deceptive for the occasional fat one.

I just purchased a Leaf last month with the $3500 utility rebate and a nice healthy dealer discount. Dealer was happy with the sale, as was I, so there's definitely better dealers out there.
.
There is one thing I know: Manufacturer discounts do not come out of the dealer's pocket. So every bargain hunter should try and drive the dealer profit down to as low as they can and THEN apply every other non-dealer discount.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
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2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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