danrjones
Posts: 309
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Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:27 pm

Actually I was thinking a quick manufacturing change could itself he related to rapidgate.

But I have no idea really
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

SageBrush
Posts: 4715
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:18 am

Astros wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:56 pm
I saw that post, but I don't really believe it. It is true that I see my Plus battery pack heat up much less than my 30 or 40kWh packs did, even with multiple long fast charging sessions, but I have mostly attributed that to the lower C rate. On my last long trip, our second charge lasted 55 minutes and we gained over 40kWh to a 94% SoC, which suggests that we were getting close to the full 44kW rate of the charger up to ~90% SoC. Even then, we only had 8 temperature bars. I'm afraid I neglected to get a LeafSpy reading at that point. Still, I didn't hear any sort of fan noise coming from the car, so if there is a fan, I can't imagine it's doing much.
Agreed that a lack of fan noise says a lot. I have heard Teslas at Superchargers that sound like little airplanes with propellers.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
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11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
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Location: NM

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:20 am

danrjones wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:43 pm
Yes, but some part of the battery (or whatever is monitored) heats up much faster than the rest.
No doubt. And the cells towards the perimeter cool off first. Such is the life of a passive cooling design
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14097
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:14 am

Astros wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:56 pm
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:37 am
A bombshell comment made by a VERY reputable person from Nissan stating 62 kwh packs now have circulation fan. Still waiting on more details on that.
I saw that post, but I don't really believe it. It is true that I see my Plus battery pack heat up much less than my 30 or 40kWh packs did, even with multiple long fast charging sessions, but I have mostly attributed that to the lower C rate. On my last long trip, our second charge lasted 55 minutes and we gained over 40kWh to a 94% SoC, which suggests that we were getting close to the full 44kW rate of the charger up to ~90% SoC. Even then, we only had 8 temperature bars. I'm afraid I neglected to get a LeafSpy reading at that point. Still, I didn't hear any sort of fan noise coming from the car, so if there is a fan, I can't imagine it's doing much.
I only consider it newsworthy because of the source who I trust A LOT. Remember he just returned from the Corporate awards ceremony where exposure to the upper echelons of LEAF design is not only possible but expected so the timing of his reveal is not a surprise.

As far as testing heat dissipation; charging to high SOC is not the way to do it. The ramp down is designed to mitigate the heat issues. If you want to do a real test; Only charge to the knee where the current starts to drop. Do that repeatedly and you should gain much more heat over the same distance traveled (and spend a lot less time charging)

FYI; the full rate on "most" chargers around here at 90% SOC would be higher than 44 KW. That is only 366 volts. Do you have a charge curve you can post?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
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DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14097
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:17 am

danrjones wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:43 pm
LeftieBiker wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:03 pm
Maybe a dumb question, but could one of the three temp sensors (I only see three), could it be on the motor?

Most things are possible, but I doubt that this one is true.
Yes, but some part of the battery (or whatever is monitored) heats up much faster than the rest.

I'm not sure if leafspy arranges so Temp1 is always the hottest, or if temp1 is always sensor 1?
in my case Temp1 (left reading in leafspy) seems to always be the hottest.
In settings you can change order you see temp sensors so yeah, you can arrange them from high, average and low. FYI; even if using sensors, the last one will still be lower than the first two but at least you will see situations where the 2nd one is higher than the first one. I tried both and the info varies so little that its an "either or" preference.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
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danrjones
Posts: 309
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
Delivery Date: 17 Jun 2019
Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:04 am

Thanks

There is definitely some thermal mass there. We were 56 this morning and my temps were 78 and 72, max and min. I would "assume" the bigger pack on the plus would have an even bigger thermal mass, but if its packaged into the same space, maybe not. Is it physically bigger?
2018 Leaf SV Pearl White with Tech and All Weather, Purchased New on 5/3/19

frontrangeleaf
Posts: 43
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2019 10:07 am
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Location: Denver Area

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:23 am

Not bigger but several hundred pounds heavier. Definitely more thermal mass. More mass period. Same surface area.
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lorenfb
Posts: 2241
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 10:53 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Nov 2013
Leaf Number: 416635
Location: SoCal

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:53 am

frontrangeleaf wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:23 am
Not bigger but several hundred pounds heavier. Definitely more thermal mass. More mass period. Same surface area.
Correct, which implies a longer thermal time constant to heat/cool.
#1 Leaf SL MY 9/13: 74K miles, 48 Ahrs, 5.2 miles/kWh (average), Hx=70, SOH=78, L2 - 100% > 1000, temp < 95F, (DOD) > 20 Ahrs
#2 Leaf SL MY 12/18: 4.5K miles, 115 Ahrs, 5.5 miles/kWh (average), Hx=98, SOH=99, DOD > 20%, temp < 105F

danrjones
Posts: 309
Joined: Wed Apr 17, 2019 8:02 am
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Location: Ridgecrest, CA

Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:17 am

lorenfb wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 8:53 am
frontrangeleaf wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:23 am
Not bigger but several hundred pounds heavier. Definitely more thermal mass. More mass period. Same surface area.
Correct, which implies a longer thermal time constant to heat/cool.
Which with rapid-gate could mean they needed a fan......... maybe
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DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 903
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Leaf Number: 407811
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Re: The 40KWH Battery Topic

Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:42 am

If they had just build a couple head sinks and a fan into the 62kw design, it would have killed most of the whining about the car battery.
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