SageBrush
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Location: NM

Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:29 am

I have read before from EA that the tariff is set by the power going to the car. That still leaves a lot of uncertainty but it contradicts @DaveInOly

Here is the EA verbiage
Electrify America’s charging costs are by the minute. These per-minute costs are dependent on your location and the power level in which your car is placed at the beginning of the charging session. This new pricing structure is called power level pricing.
And Electrek from June:
Electrify America’s new pricing structure is based on three power levels: 0-75 kW, 76kW-125 kW, and 126kW-350kW. The charging network notes that pricing is by the minute, and the per-minute costs will be determined both by the power level the car is capable of charging at, and the state where the charger is located.
I find it amusing that so far I cannot find pricing experiences over 75 kW at EA. Says something about the state of charging in the non-Tesla world. Personally, I'm looking forward to 250 kW at a V3 Tesla Supercharger
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
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DougWantsALeaf
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Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:35 pm

If you look a couple minutes into this video, it looks like he able to maintain over 60 kilowatt charging speed beyond 80%.

Hopefully the new EVGo 100 KW chargers here come online soon.

https://youtu.be/fNs9J5CoXVo
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
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Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
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SageBrush
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Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
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Location: NM

Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:07 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:35 pm
If you look a couple minutes into this video, it looks like he able to maintain over 60 kilowatt charging speed beyond 80%.
Are we looking at the same video ? I see 46 kW (127 Amps) at 40% SOC

Image
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14149
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
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Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:24 am

SageBrush wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:14 am
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:48 am
Conversely, you plug into a 150 KW station with a 100 KW car that whose SOC is past the knee and you never get more than 40 kw, you will still be charged the higher rate.
Are you sure, as in proven by experience ?
Check the Kona pages on FB. The posts are all over the place with people saying this.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14149
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Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:31 am

danrjones wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:17 am
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Tue Sep 10, 2019 6:48 am
danrjones wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:12 am


Doesn't EA bump their $ rate up at 75 KW, so if you touch 75 for even a few seconds, you bump into the next cost tier?

So ideally you want to stay at 74 or bellow. It would suck to get charged the higher rate for charging briefly at 76 KW
The rate is based on the station you plug into. 50 KW will never charge the higher rate no matter how fast you charge. Conversely, you plug into a 150 KW station with a 100 KW car that whose SOC is past the knee and you never get more than 40 kw, you will still be charged the higher rate.
So if you plugged a 50 kW CCS into one of the 150 or even 350 kW plugs, and never drew more than a peak of 50 kW, you get charged at a higher rate? That's not what I expected.

On their website they say "Our DC fast charging stations have a range of 50kW, 150kW, and 350kW chargers. These kW values refer to the maximum power each charger can provide"

For CA, their rate plans are listed at 75 or less, 125 or less and 350 or less.

So to hit 75, wouldn't you "theoretically" have to use the 150kW charger?

Sorry, something just doesn't make sense.
Its also not what I said. If your car can't charge faster than 75 KW, it doesn't matter which plug you use. If your car "can" charge at 75+KW under the right circumstances, then you will be charged that rate if you use the higher rated station.

Have seen several reports of vehicles, mostly Kona's getting billed the higher rate despite not actually attaining more than 75 KW even briefly. Now we can hardly say that EA's billing has launched w/o hitches and this is something that may have been addressed but there were several reports of this.

As far at EA charging summaries; there have also been several people reporting that EA claimed a much higher peak charging rate than they actually received.
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
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SageBrush
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Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:44 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:31 am
Its also not what I said. If your car can't charge faster than 75 KW, it doesn't matter which plug you use. If your car "can" charge at 75+KW under the right circumstances, then you will be charged that rate if you use the higher rated station.
.
I'm more than a little skeptical.

I'm interested in the Kona reports but I avoid FB like the plague. Perhaps the explanation for the anecdotes is that EA is pricing by the peak electrical load rather than the power to the car. Find a report of a car that took in no higher than say 65 kW and was charged the 75+ tier and I'll reconsider my opinion. Or, as you say, it is a simple glitch
Last edited by SageBrush on Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14149
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 7:43 pm
Delivery Date: 16 Feb 2018
Leaf Number: 314199
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:49 am

SageBrush wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:44 am
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:31 am
Its also not what I said. If your car can't charge faster than 75 KW, it doesn't matter which plug you use. If your car "can" charge at 75+KW under the right circumstances, then you will be charged that rate if you use the higher rated station.
.
I'm more than a little skeptical.

I'm interested in the Kona reports but I avoid FB like the plague. Perhaps the explanation for the anecdotes is that EA is pricing by the peak electrical load rather than the power to the car.
Well, that would support one of the quotes you posted. I get that ideology since EA does not control charge curve or ramp down, but imm, a reputable company would realize when the charge was complete that 75 KW was never achieved and should say "Your bill has been adjusted to reflect the level of service you received" and there are reports that some people did get refunds so maybe an issue they are working?
2011 SL; 44,598 miles. 2013 S; 44,840 miles.2016 S30 deceased. 29,413 miles. 2018 S40; 15,000 miles, 478 GIDs, 37.0 kwh 109.81 Ahr , SOH 94.61, Hx 120.15
My Blog; http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
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Location: NM

Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:58 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:49 am
SageBrush wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:44 am
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:31 am
Its also not what I said. If your car can't charge faster than 75 KW, it doesn't matter which plug you use. If your car "can" charge at 75+KW under the right circumstances, then you will be charged that rate if you use the higher rated station.
.
I'm more than a little skeptical.

I'm interested in the Kona reports but I avoid FB like the plague. Perhaps the explanation for the anecdotes is that EA is pricing by the peak electrical load rather than the power to the car.
Well, that would support one of the quotes you posted. I get that ideology since EA does not control charge curve or ramp down, but imm, a reputable company would realize when the charge was complete that 75 KW was never achieved and should say "Your bill has been adjusted to reflect the level of service you received" and there are reports that some people did get refunds so maybe an issue they are working?
.
So far as I know, the handshake between the charger and the car is:
"How much power do you want?"
And never
"What is your theoretical peak power ?"

How *close* were the Kona anecdotes to 75 kW ? Do you have an anecdote of a Kona never going above say 60 kW yet being charged in the 75 - 125 kW tier ? An easy test would be for a Kona to show up at an EA station with 90% SoC and charge for a minute.

It DOES sound like 200 Amp cars are going to get killed on pricing at EA stations, particularly the ~ 40 kWh models that tend to charge well into the taper. The work-around is going to be to start a new charging session once the power delivery goes below the expensive tier. Just call it the LEAF and Kia tax ;)
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
Posts: 4907
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:18 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 6:49 am
I get that ideology since EA does not control charge curve or ramp down, but imm, a reputable company would realize when the charge was complete that 75 KW was never achieved and should say "Your bill has been adjusted to reflect the level of service you received" and there are reports that some people did get refunds so maybe an issue they are working?
.
That is not what I am saying. EA has a pricing scheme that passes demand charges on to the consumer. Perhaps power is charged at the meter, not power into the car.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought off-lease Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/2018: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/2018: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 993
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Chademo Getting a Boost Mode

Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:46 am

That's my guess, that at start of charge, the car tells the charger what the max rate it can take, and that sets the pricing.

Except for the Chademo's those are baked in at the lowest pricing tier, which I am completely ok with paying. at .18-.25 minute (or for 0-60% SOC about 1 KW per minute) , while above my home price by a few cents, for the few times I have needed it, happy to pay the premium.
2019 SV Plus Silver
2013 Leaf SV
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max distance on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max distance on 19 Leaf: 242 Highway 4.5 miles/kWh (4.9 KWh remaining)

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