GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:27 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:58 am
GRA wrote:
Fri Sep 13, 2019 2:21 pm
Yesterday it finally happened - I saw a Niro BEV in the wild. I've seen a few PHEV Niros before this, but not a single BEV outside of the ones at the dealership (Including the one I test drove). Beats me why sales are so slow, unless the dealerships are still tacking on $5k ADMs as they were when I drove one a few months back. That doesn't seem to be the case, and there doesn't seem like there's a lack of availability, then or now.
Saw one at NDEW Steilacoom and the reason you don't see many is rather obvious here. The only thing readily available is the highest trim. The one I saw was $46,000. Very nice but a lot of stuff I wouldn't pay for. It had a sunroof that really reduced backseat head room a lot. I am not tall and it was close for me.

H'mm, I don't recall any headroom problems front or rear, and I drove the EX Premium w/sunroof (I'd opt for the EX, which lacks it). I'm 6'0", but short-torsoed and long-legged. Checking dealers within 20 miles or so, the EX does seem to be in short supply (1 EX out of 12 BEVs at one dealer; 2 of 21 at another; 0 of 2 at a third; 3 of 7 at a fourth), although that may be because they sell better. I agree that the EX Premium is too pricy, or rather it has a lot of stuff I don't want.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 12145
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:31 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 5:37 am

As for the Korean EV offerings: I typically skip these threads because the cars are produced in minuscule volumes for the compliance market and are simply not interesting.

You mean they're not interesting to you, thus you (rightly) skip the topic. Some of us do find them interesting, which is why we read/post about them.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1968
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:18 pm

GRA,

Its like you are in a different country. There are none in the midwest, nor any plans to have them their soon.

Interesting though, a Niro hybird (not full ev) parked next to me today (in our Plus). The car is no bigger than the leaf, and doesn't seem to ride much higher.

Beyond the very mild summer limitations of the Leaf battery (which I have not yet experienced), and the mounting reviews of the SR+ missing range expectations, I am feeling better and better about my cheaper Plus purchase. My GOM still is above 270 at full charge...300 if I have been driving for a bit. So very much want to try a Kona EV or Niro EV to see how much better they really do with an experienced EV driver.

I am an EV advocate, and happy with whatever EV you choose.
2019 S Plus (97.98% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.84% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

cwerdna
Posts: 10983
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Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Sat Sep 14, 2019 7:35 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:18 pm
GRA,

Its like you are in a different country. There are none in the midwest, nor any plans to have them their soon.

Interesting though, a Niro hybird (not full ev) parked next to me today (in our Plus). The car is no bigger than the leaf, and doesn't seem to ride much higher.
Well, yeah. Unfortunately, numerous automakers are only selling/leasing EVs/PHEVs in CA or CARB emission states mostly likely due to CA ZEV requirements. And, there's the fact that CA has incentives like HOV stickers and CVRP (https://cleanvehiclerebate.org/eng).

I bet many of the lower volume vehicles in the chart at https://insideevs.com/news/368729/ev-sa ... gust-2019/ are simply n/a in the US if not in a CARB emission state.

I was traveling recently and saw few EVs in Tucson, fewer in upstate NY and even fewer in the Houston area. In contrast, here in Nor Cal, there are tons of EVs and PHEVs. The other morning I pulled in relatively late into work and on level 3 of our parking structure where we have Tesla wall connectors vs. a whole bunch of ChargePoint J1772 stations, almost every vehicle in the charging spots was a Tesla.

We are past 600 EVs/PHEVs in our work registry, although some folks have multiple PEVs in their household and some are no longer with the company but haven't been removed yet.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Sun Sep 15, 2019 4:54 pm

DougWantsALeaf wrote:
Sat Sep 14, 2019 6:18 pm
GRA,

Its like you are in a different country.

Well, of course we're in a different country - hell, parts of California are on an entirely different planet :lol:

cwerdna describes the situation here in the Bay Area (or at least in Silicon Valley); Teslas aren't quite so numerous elsewhere in the Bay Area, although they are the dominant PEV and the Model 3 is even common. But there are plenty of Primes, Volts, Bolts, Energis etc. running around also.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 1968
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:15 pm

So at the Autoshow I finally sat in the Kia Niro. I felt kind of underwhelmed, but maybe my expectations were a bit too high. Admittedly, I didn't drive the car. I really wanted to like the car, as it would align me to CCS charging and a bit better range. I didn't find it quite as comfortable to sit in to start. The back seats also didn't feel any roomier than the Leaf. The middle tunnel in the back was lower and the rear headroom a bit more (due to difference in seating stlye), so a couple pluses there. What surprised me most was the rear cargo space. It looked notable smaller than the Leaf (we went back and forth between the booths). While the flat loading is good for most times, having the deeper bay has come in handy many times in the 7 years we have owned a Leaf.

They did had a HabeNiro out to look at as well, but it looks more concept than reality in its current form.

For those who have or have had both a Leaf and a Niro, how has long distance driving treated your backside? I haven't had any issues in 500 mile days in the Leaf, but curious if the Niro has proven to be as comfortable.

thank you in advance.
2019 S Plus (97.98% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (94.84% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

GRA
Posts: 12145
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:09 pm

I'm a big fan of rear gate loading with no or minimal lip, as it makes sliding in and removing heavy/ungainly cargo (like a bike) much easier. And the Niro's flat load floor also conceals a (hopefully full-size) spare tire well, although the U.S. model doesn't come with one and the space is filled by a (removable) foam filler, EVSE and IIRR tire inflator/leak stopper. As having a spare and a jack along on road trips aren't negotiable requirements for me, the Niro's providing a space for same that doesn't take up cargo room (and is restrained in a crash) is a big plus. I could always buy an extra wheel and tire for a spare, as I did for my first Subaru.

I also much prefer having variable regen on paddles, because so much of my driving is on steep roads in the mountains, and I like to shift a car in any case so they give me something to do and keep me more engaged.

The biggest downsides for me to the Niro are the lack of a capacity warranty, no AWD, and the too slow yet just too fast for EA's lowest tier QC'ing, and I could use more range too. Oh, and the boring colors, but I could live with that.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

GRA
Posts: 12145
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Kia Niro BEV

Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:27 pm

Autocar:
EV to Edinburgh, take two: 700 miles in a Kia e-Niro
One year on from taking Hyundai's then-new Kona Electric on a cross-country road trip, we do the same in its sister car to see how the network has improved
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new- ... kia-e-niro


Just over a year ago I set off on a bleak December morning from Oxfordshire to Edinburgh in a 64kWh Hyundai Kona Electric SE. The idea was to take the first affordable EV with a decent range (£35,145 after PiCG at the time) and get there without having to jump through any early adopter-type hoops. It’s not a once every six months trip either, it’s one I do a few times a year.

The Kona Electric was easily up to it and would have managed it with two rapid charges each way (which take the battery to 80 percent in rapid mode, rather than 100). It was a near disaster because six of the eight Ecotricity DC rapid chargers I stopped at during the entire 690 mile round trip, didn’t work.

In January, I did the trip again to see if anything had changed apart from the car, which this time was a Kia e-Niro with the same size battery as the Kona . . . This time my other half was with me, plus a puppy and I couldn’t risk getting stuck in the cold weather.

We left with the trip on 11,834 miles and a 24 hour charge from a domestic socket, a predicted range of 233 miles and the temperature outside, a nippy 6°C. . . .

The first stop was 118 miles away at Knutsford on the M6 with the temperature still at a chilly 6°C. The remaining range on the trip computer was 133 miles, a difference from the predicted range of 115 miles which tallied almost exactly with reality. I’d made good use of the adaptive cruise and the Ecotricity charger worked, delivering 24.1 KWh for £7.23, 30p/kW in around 45 minutes and with the range now topped-up to 204 miles.

Next stop was at the usual – Tebay Northbound. This time the numbers suggested the e-Niro was being slightly pessimistic, so we’d used less energy than it anticipated and were left with 199 miles. Again, straightforward charge with Ecotricity costing £7.80. We stopped again at Abington services on the M74 before heading off across the borders to Edinburgh, not because we needed to but because I wanted plenty left for the return trip across the borders. Accessible rapid chargers are extremely scarce at our destination, the pup needed a pee-stop anyway and the charger at Abington was on free vend, so we took 25.2kWh while we were at it. We arrived on the outskirts of Edinburgh with 150 miles range left, so two stops would still have been comfortable.

On the way home on the third day of the trip, it was much the same story except this time I was confident with Ecotricity and completely confident with the Kia’s range predictions. After a domestic socket top-up while we were there, we left for home with the range showing 240 miles. We stopped at Gretna after 87 miles for breakfast but didn’t bother charging, then Lancaster after another 84 miles with another top-up, then Keele and another top-up) after a further 74 miles then home, 91 miles away.

The total trip was 709 miles and we finished with a predicted range at the finish of 77 miles. Several of the stops were for us and the pup rather than the need to take on charge . . . The adaptive cruise, active lane keeping and refinement of the e-Niro made it the most relaxing trip I’ve done to Scotland over the last few years and this time the Ecotricity chargers all did the job without a fight. In total we spent £42.60 on rapid charging and probably around £10 on home charging at both ends at about 15p/kWh. Say £45 energy cost, compared to around £85 in the family Fiesta 1.0-litre Ecoboost and around £130 in my 3.0-litre X5 diesel.

Of the three, the e-Niro was by far the most enjoyable to do the trip in and I’d started doing the man maths to buy one before we’d finished the first leg. But even set at maximum denial levels, my man maths faltered at the cost of buying an EV like this. It’s still so much more than a conventional equivalent even with the PiCG. In this case, the e-Niro (which only comes in the highest Niro 4 trim level at £34,495) is £4,940 more than the petrol hybrid version and almost £10,000 more than a Niro 2 trim hybrid at £24,885, including the £5,000 PiCG against the EV. . . .

The Kia handles well, rides well and has mighty acceleration for overtaking (and fun) when you want, even at higher speeds. Regenerative braking is adjustable using steering column paddles so the accelerator effectively becomes the brake as well if you crank it up. It cuts down the reaction time which I find gives better control driving cross-country, especially on the dark on unlit roads. I was surprised at how I could adapt my driving to take advantage of the EV’s characteristics and how much fun it was.

Is the e-Niro a convincing substitute for a combustion engine equivalent over any distance? For desirability, running cost and capability the answer is a definite yes. Despite being a lifelong petrolhead, I’d take one in a heartbeat over any petrol or diesel equivalent, but not until the price is a lot closer than it is today.

Note, PiCG is a Plug-in Car Grant, 35% off the purchase price up to a max. of 3,500 GBP.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

LeftieBiker
Moderator
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:33 pm

This time my other half was with me, plus a puppy and I couldn’t risk getting stuck in the cold weather.
And yet he did. ;)
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:04 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 7:33 pm
This time my other half was with me, plus a puppy and I couldn’t risk getting stuck in the cold weather.
And yet he did. ;)

How so? Did you read the Kona trip report he was comparing this trip too, where most of the chargers were u/s?
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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