Battery Upgrades are very possible

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mux said:
Oilpan4 said:
What causes the 40kwh batt to heat up so much?
We talking chademo use or does that also include the extended charging time on 6.6kw?

On *just* the 40kWh battery: anything seems to heat up the battery. Looking at it wrong is potentially bad. But all jokes aside - the Leaf 40kWh will heat up under any scenario - both driving and charging - but it'll heat up by far most during QC sessions. Using the 6.6kW charger shouldn't really heat it up much, maybe a degree here and there over many hours of charging.

That would depend on OAT. I normally see as much as 10º temp rise on a level 2 charge to full.

SageBrush said:
mux said:
because the 40kWh battery is not very good.
.
Would a 30 kWh battery be a better choice for a swap ? I think there were more produced for the USA market than 40 kWh

Oh yes! Absolutely, the 30kWh battery is the best battery Nissan ever made. Doesn't rapidgate, QCs up to 80%+, reasonable rate of degradation if you charge to 80% and reasonable range for everyday use. That and the air-cooled 24kWh battery in the e-nv200, that one's surprisingly excellent as well. I've seen 100 000km+ e-nv200s with 90% SoH batteries. Same chemistry, but even the slightest hint of thermal management saves that battery long-term. Unfortunately that's not an option for the Leaf, it's a completely different form factor.

+1. I QC'd from 20% to 85% with pack starting at 115º F at full speed several times. Never saw a hint of a slowdown ever with one exception and since high heat was far from a possibility (first QC of the day on a 40º day) I chalked that one up to station issues.

I had nearly 300 QCs in 29,000 + miles and "practically" no degradation. 14 month LEAF Spy reading ahr; 82.05, SOH 100%. That pack was bulletproof.

-------------
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
+1. I QC'd from 20% to 85% with pack starting at 115º F at full speed several times. Never saw a hint of a slowdown ever with one exception and since high heat was far from a possibility (first QC of the day on a 40º day) I chalked that one up to station issues.

I had nearly 300 QCs in 29,000 + miles and "practically" no degradation. 14 month LEAF Spy reading ahr; 82.05, SOH 100%. That pack was bulletproof.

I keep hearing on this forum that the 30kWh battery was the "best", but that was not my experience with it. There must have been different versions, at least of the BMS, because when I had a 2017 SV it certainly suffered from slow charging when the pack got hot. I drove it 300-500 miles in a day several times, and starting with the third charge of the day I couldn't get more than ~22kW from a charger. On the longer trips, it got even lower. At first I thought that the chargers were defective (and posted negative comments on plugshare), but soon figured out that it was the car heating up. This was before I had LeafSpy, and I traded in the car for a 2018 SV hoping that they would have fixed the problem with the new battery. Of course, I soon found that the 2018 behaved the same way, only the slower charging started with the second charge, though I was getting more kWh from the first charge.
 
Astros said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
+1. I QC'd from 20% to 85% with pack starting at 115º F at full speed several times. Never saw a hint of a slowdown ever with one exception and since high heat was far from a possibility (first QC of the day on a 40º day) I chalked that one up to station issues.

I had nearly 300 QCs in 29,000 + miles and "practically" no degradation. 14 month LEAF Spy reading ahr; 82.05, SOH 100%. That pack was bulletproof.

I keep hearing on this forum that the 30kWh battery was the "best", but that was not my experience with it. There must have been different versions, at least of the BMS, because when I had a 2017 SV it certainly suffered from slow charging when the pack got hot. I drove it 300-500 miles in a day several times, and starting with the third charge of the day I couldn't get more than ~22kW from a charger. On the longer trips, it got even lower. At first I thought that the chargers were defective (and posted negative comments on plugshare), but soon figured out that it was the car heating up. This was before I had LeafSpy, and I traded in the car for a 2018 SV hoping that they would have fixed the problem with the new battery. Of course, I soon found that the 2018 behaved the same way, only the slower charging started with the second charge, though I was getting more kWh from the first charge.

Well your temperature bars are displayed all the time. You must have noticed them?

I can't post pix here so threw this together. Have a lot more but doing NDEW so no time to invest right now. But will give you an idea along with validity of my claims. Check around; praises for the 30 kwh pack are fairly common.

https://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2019/09/30-kw-leaf-qc.html
 
I keep hearing on this forum that the 30kWh battery was the "best", but that was not my experience with it.


It is the 24kwh "Lizard" pack that is usually praised as the best pack Nissan has made. The 30kwh pack has, as you suggest, a very uneven record.
 
Does anyone have the latest information on a battery upgrade for the 2013 Leaf that would accept (and work) with a 40kwh or greater battery pack (one that works and meets expectations)? If so, who is it, what is their contact info?
 
https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerElectronicsBlog

https://www.muxsan.com/

Unfortunately, the company is based in the Netherlands, so unless you live in that region then you are out of luck. Hopefully they will consider franchising to the the US and Canada (one can dream) at some point...
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Well your temperature bars are displayed all the time. You must have noticed them?

I can't post pix here so threw this together. Have a lot more but doing NDEW so no time to invest right now. But will give you an idea along with validity of my claims. Check around; praises for the 30 kwh pack are fairly common.

https://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2019/09/30-kw-leaf-qc.html

Yes, I remember the temperature gauge getting up into the red during that trip, though I don’t think it reached 12 bars. It was two years ago, so I’m afraid the details are a little fuzzy, but that wasn’t the only time we saw the charging rate slow down after a couple quick charges. Since you didn’t experience the same slowdown, I’m wondering if the later 2017 models had different software than earlier models.
 
alozzy said:
https://www.youtube.com/user/PowerElectronicsBlog

https://www.muxsan.com/

Unfortunately, the company is based in the Netherlands, so unless you live in that region then you are out of luck. Hopefully they will consider franchising to the the US and Canada (one can dream) at some point...

Thank you. This is promising-yet, still in research phase. Hopefully, they will get a business plan that can attract the investors to support such an endeavor. If you hear anything about a solid offer here in the states, let me know.
 
Astros said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
Well your temperature bars are displayed all the time. You must have noticed them?

I can't post pix here so threw this together. Have a lot more but doing NDEW so no time to invest right now. But will give you an idea along with validity of my claims. Check around; praises for the 30 kwh pack are fairly common.

https://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2019/09/30-kw-leaf-qc.html

Yes, I remember the temperature gauge getting up into the red during that trip, though I don’t think it reached 12 bars. It was two years ago, so I’m afraid the details are a little fuzzy, but that wasn’t the only time we saw the charging rate slow down after a couple quick charges. Since you didn’t experience the same slowdown, I’m wondering if the later 2017 models had different software than earlier models.

Hard to say. You might have just been hotter than me. I think I peaked around 132º but that was end of charge, not beginning so a bit different. On a charge start, I think I had a few starting in the 127-128 range.
 
AdventureMuffin said:
Thank you. This is promising-yet, still in research phase. Hopefully, they will get a business plan that can attract the investors to support such an endeavor. If you hear anything about a solid offer here in the states, let me know.

Actually, they are now installing production extender packs as they have proved out their tech during a beta round just completed. The most exciting advancement is that they've recently replaced the original 24kWh pack in a 2011 LEAF with a salvaged 40kWh pack + extender in the trunk. The range is basically the same as a brand new Leaf Plus. It sounded like it wasn't that difficult, so I would expect that they'll make that a commercial offering within the next 6 months or so...
 
Just so you're not just hearing it second hand: yes, we have 10 cars driving around with extender packs already and one 'ultra-leaf', i.e. the 40kWh+extender+3ph charging (all the upgrades we're offering right now). We're installing about one more car per week now and ramping up to full production soon (tm). Over the past few months we've been ironing out lots of bugs and we are pretty confident in the product by now. All that's left is type approval and documentation before we can call it final.

It's going to take a while before we can offer this in the US and Canada. Our insurance expressly excludes US/CA because of liability concerns, so we'd have to offer it uninsured as a DIY at-your-own-risk kit, but even then it might be iffy. Best is probably to find a full producer, installer that licenses our tech or something like that.
 
mux said:
Just so you're not just hearing it second hand: yes, we have 10 cars driving around with extender packs already and one 'ultra-leaf', i.e. the 40kWh+extender+3ph charging (all the upgrades we're offering right now). We're installing about one more car per week now and ramping up to full production soon (tm). Over the past few months we've been ironing out lots of bugs and we are pretty confident in the product by now. All that's left is type approval and documentation before we can call it final.

It's going to take a while before we can offer this in the US and Canada. Our insurance expressly excludes US/CA because of liability concerns, so we'd have to offer it uninsured as a DIY at-your-own-risk kit, but even then it might be iffy. Best is probably to find a full producer, installer that licenses our tech or something like that.
I think selling a kit in the US (cannot speak for Canada) as an uninsurable item, DIY or otherwise, is a non-starter. Of the 8 US states I have lived in, all require certain minimum insurance coverage to register a vehicle.
 
AdventureMuffin said:
Nissan just sent me a recall for changing out the lithium ion battery bonding plates. Toying with the idea of seeing if they cant replace the battery while they are in that deep.
Just had that recall applied to my 2012 SL. Took about 45 minutes to accomplish with the LEAF already on the lift for a brake fluid replacement and overall inspection. So I don't think the recall required the tech to get in very deep.
 
SalisburySam said:
I think selling a kit in the US (cannot speak for Canada) as an uninsurable item, DIY or otherwise, is a non-starter. Of the 8 US states I have lived in, all require certain minimum insurance coverage to register a vehicle.

Vehicle insurance is completely different from product insurance. This is often confused when doing mods on a car, but you can sell lots of modifications to cars without product insurance and still have a perfectly insurable car - everything from body kits to exhaust tips to audio equipment, all of which you'd think is a potential safety or liability hazard but apparently isn't - or at least isn't classified as such.

So no, vehicle insurance concerns aren't a thing for us. It's purely a product insurance thing; what if something goes wrong with the product causing either product damage, further vehicle damage or damage to third parties? That's the kind of insurance nobody wants to take on for the US and Canada because of particular tort laws.
 
We can do pretty much anything we want to our electric cars here in the US.
No insurance BS red tape.
I'm in new Mexico and they don't even do vehicle inspections here.
 
Well, that's what we have to investigate. Our insurance agents have been very clear about it; don't sell anything in the US or Canada, it's a minefield. The type of product we would sell is well outside the types of products that have well-defined regulatory alignment between the EU and NAFTA.

We're of course still looking into going about it slightly more clandestinely. Worst case we can go the vape route; sell different parts separately for 'other purposes' and let people DIY it all the way. For that, though, we first need sufficient production volume.
 
mux said:
We're of course still looking into going about it slightly more clandestinely. Worst case we can go the vape route; sell different parts separately for 'other purposes' and let people DIY it all the way. For that, though, we first need sufficient production volume.

I sure seems you are building a successful business model. It does seem you are getting traction with a methodology that works as opposed to The Fenix Power model that is so difficult to implement (I have a minimal down payment as I sincerely hope they can pull off a miracle!). Selling the complex VCM/CAN equipment, a compliant set of high voltage connectors, with a step by step conversion instruction (with plenty of liability exclusions :mrgreen: ), could be what we need here in the U.S.
 
mux said:
Well, that's what we have to investigate. Our insurance agents have been very clear about it; don't sell anything in the US or Canada, it's a minefield. The type of product we would sell is well outside the types of products that have well-defined regulatory alignment between the EU and NAFTA.

We're of course still looking into going about it slightly more clandestinely. Worst case we can go the vape route; sell different parts separately for 'other purposes' and let people DIY it all the way. For that, though, we first need sufficient production volume.

How about the original http://openevse.com/about-us.html route of selling the circuit boards and components and having us solder the thing ourselves? My 2nd EVSE came from them that way. You can ask the folks at openevse.com to see how that worked out for them (legality wise).
 
That's exactly what I'm alluding to, but the legality is something you can only evaluate on a case-by-case basis. Still need a legal person to figure that out for us.
 
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