Porsche Taycan - A 300 mile EV

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DougWantsALeaf said:
The 2012-2013 batteries had much higher rates of degradation then the newer batteries.
Here is the most extensive database available
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/t024bMoRiDPIDialGnuKPsg/edit#gid=1304697563

Have a look; it is your opportunity to actually gain a clue
 
SageBrush said:
DougWantsALeaf said:
The 2012-2013 batteries had much higher rates of degradation then the newer batteries.
Here is the most extensive database available
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/t024bMoRiDPIDialGnuKPsg/edit#gid=1304697563

Have a look; it is your opportunity to actually gain a clue
I took this dataset and constrained it to American owners with 85 kWh batteries from the 2013 Manufacturer year:

uc


This is consistent with what is known about Li-x batteries in general and Tesla batteries specifically: ~ 3 - 5% of capacity is lost in the first year and then shelf life/thermal degradation takes over. There are manufacturers who cycle the batteries in the factory to mimic the first year before they are put into cars. At times Tesla has simply supplied batteries that have 5% more capacity than the stated range so that owners find that their batteries enter the very slow degradation phase at about the rated range (even though they start out with ~ 5% more than expected and are sorry to lose it so quickly.) The uninformed then worry or troll that the first year pace will continue.

That would be you.
 
Stoaty said:
GRA said:
As Bishop is only 40 miles (and 3,700 ft. ) from Mammoth, and EA is building a QC site there as well as in Murrieta, Riverside, Hesperia, Mojave and Coso Junction (as well as the existing site in Ontario) , getting a Taycan to Mammoth from LA or San Diego won't be an issue once they're open.

True, but it would still be a problem using Mammoth as a home base for day hikes for 5-6 days, which I did recently. Some of our drives were up to an hour each way, no problem filling up in Mammoth at the supercharger. Did another recent trip for day hikes with Bishop as our home base, which worked out only because we were staying at a hotel with L1 charging. I was able to get about 50 miles a night and had no problem driving up to 9,000 or 10,000 feet and back down. There aren't any Tesla destination chargers in Bishop, and the planned supercharging station doesn't seem to be going anywhere. There are a couple of places that have 220 volt charging, but these are RV places and I think you would have to stay there to get a charge.


There's no doubt at all that QCs or at least L2s are wanted in all the typical base camp towns along 395, and until they exist BEV owners' flexibility will be constrained. I've been trying to get Tesla and latterly EA or CEC to put QCs or at minimum L2s in at least Lee Vining (L2s just opened), Bishop and Lone Pine for years now with limited success, and they're also needed in Bridgeport (EA is doing QCs), June Lake, Mammoth (SC/hotel L2s), Big Pine (no one), Independence (L2 at motel) and Olancha (EA is doing QCs at Coso Junction to the south, which is better than nothing). Once the EA site in Bishop opens you could use the CHAdeMO.

All that being said, I was responding to your specific point about getting to Mammoth in a Taycan (or any other CCS car), and that's not going to be an issue from the south, and may not be from the west/north. I'd feel more confident about the last case if there were sites with multiple QCs between Oakdale and Mammoth and public access L2s there (instead of ones restricted to hotel guests), but all we have now is a single dual-standard QC + 1 L2 at Rush Creek Lodge, and another such plus 4? L2s going in at Groveland and the 2 L2s at Lee Vining, when two or more QCs per site are what's needed for through traffic.
 
EVDRIVER said:
WetEV said:
SageBrush said:
.
You respond like a Trumper

Trump and Musk, and their followers, have a lot in common.

Nonsense.
It's not at all nonsense. Cult-like behavior does not exist only within one kind of belief system.

Some of Musk's acolytes are as sure of him now as they ever have been, despite the company having floundered now for years, never having delivered the followers to the promised land of profit. TSLA now trading 3% higher than it was five years ago. Pays no dividend. S&P500 over the same period, not including dividends, is up 53%.

Yet still heathens are berated for their lack of faith. It's pitiful. Look at them tripping over themselves to discredit the Taycan, even though I've not read one review by an actual car journalist that doesn't rave about it as being superior to the Model S.
 
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
Yet still heathens are berated for their lack of faith.
No ... you are berated for projecting your inferiority complex by lashing out with FUD and childish insults.

FOR EXAMPLE,
You could have commented that the Taycan has a 800 Volt system and discussed its merits Vs the 400 Volt systems in just about all other EVs including Tesla. As a Tesla fanboi I would have opined that it seems technically superior, although it carries a heavy financial cost. I would have told you that I suspect that 800 Volt will become the new standard as costs come down.
 
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
EVDRIVER said:
WetEV said:
Trump and Musk, and their followers, have a lot in common.

Nonsense.
It's not at all nonsense. Cult-like behavior does not exist only within one kind of belief system.

Some of Musk's acolytes are as sure of him now as they ever have been, despite the company having floundered now for years, never having delivered the followers to the promised land of profit. TSLA now trading 3% higher than it was five years ago. Pays no dividend. S&P500 over the same period, not including dividends, is up 53%.

Yet still heathens are berated for their lack of faith. It's pitiful. Look at them tripping over themselves to discredit the Taycan, even though I've not read one review by an actual car journalist that doesn't rave about it as being superior to the Model S.

Do you think Tesla stock is not being manipulated? Tesla could not make target this quarter and loose 1% and they could sell 500K cars and loose 10%. Your assumptions about the stock are as logical as the stock movements. Tesla is not going anywhere soon and any rational person can see that. Trump and Musk do have things in common, Trump supporters would love to see Tesla die for reasons they don't and can't understand. Most think the govt subsidizes Tesla.
 
SageBrush said:
No ... you are berated for projecting your inferiority complex by lashing out with FUD and childish insults.
I actually think you're responding to the wrong person now. Your comment makes no sense to me.
 
EVDRIVER said:
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
EVDRIVER said:
Nonsense.
It's not at all nonsense. Cult-like behavior does not exist only within one kind of belief system.

Some of Musk's acolytes are as sure of him now as they ever have been, despite the company having floundered now for years, never having delivered the followers to the promised land of profit. TSLA now trading 3% higher than it was five years ago. Pays no dividend. S&P500 over the same period, not including dividends, is up 53%.

Yet still heathens are berated for their lack of faith. It's pitiful. Look at them tripping over themselves to discredit the Taycan, even though I've not read one review by an actual car journalist that doesn't rave about it as being superior to the Model S.

Do you think Tesla stock is not being manipulated? Tesla could not make target this quarter and loose 1% and they could sell 500K cars and loose 10%. Your assumptions about the stock are as logical as the stock movements. Tesla is not going anywhere soon and any rational person can see that. Trump and Musk do have things in common, Trump supporters would love to see Tesla die for reasons they don't and can't understand. Most think the govt subsidizes Tesla.
As far as I know only one person has been legally admonished so far for manipulating the stock and that would be the CEO of Tesla.

It's a widely shorted stock, but that's nothing new. Stocks have been shorted for a very long time. The reason the stock is down substantially from highs is really just about its valuation being indefensible more than any nefarious orchestrations by people. The diehards will chase this stock down to double digits and scream the entire time that it's not Tesla's fault. There is however enough real money from people looking to make profits that when they see the writing on the wall they pull out. And that's the real reason it's shed 1/3rd of its all time high.
 
Sagebrush

Tesloop and another (i need to go find it) have compile data of the early S batteries vs. the newer S and model 3 batteries, and have found the newer ones haven’t seen the same rate of reduction. This is not meant to be creating worry or trolling, just that Tesla batteries are improving, and rates of problems were higher early on.

You could say the 2015 Leaf battery was similarly better than the 2011 battery, especially as a good number of them still have Soh in the low to mid 90s... the 30 battery not so good. Still the scale of loss is a bit higher.

Now I do find interesting that Tesla and Nissan’s battery degradation warranty are both set to 70% over 8 years.
https://electrek.co/2017/12/20/tesla-model-3-warranty-new-battery-capacity-retention_gl=1*171npbr*_ga*YW1wLUxQaVRJaUxvUFI4RFJCcGQzRHlteFBxX0xGOVN4V2ZqZTFfN21DZENxOC1GZHR4NXVOWWRUYnQxZ2lkZUlkN2Y.

Surprised Tesla is sandbagging a bit, and not promising anything higher, say 80%.
 
I think the whole Tesla battery conversation is off-topic for this thread and should be moved elsewhere.


FWIW, older Tesla's have their own collection of problems. E.g., Model S door handle failures, yellowing on the center screen. Significant battery degradation (like the LEAF) is not one of them. When people talk about buying a 2014 Model S, no one questions the state of the battery.
 
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
EVDRIVER said:
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
It's not at all nonsense. Cult-like behavior does not exist only within one kind of belief system.

Some of Musk's acolytes are as sure of him now as they ever have been, despite the company having floundered now for years, never having delivered the followers to the promised land of profit. TSLA now trading 3% higher than it was five years ago. Pays no dividend. S&P500 over the same period, not including dividends, is up 53%.

Yet still heathens are berated for their lack of faith. It's pitiful. Look at them tripping over themselves to discredit the Taycan, even though I've not read one review by an actual car journalist that doesn't rave about it as being superior to the Model S.

Do you think Tesla stock is not being manipulated? Tesla could not make target this quarter and loose 1% and they could sell 500K cars and loose 10%. Your assumptions about the stock are as logical as the stock movements. Tesla is not going anywhere soon and any rational person can see that. Trump and Musk do have things in common, Trump supporters would love to see Tesla die for reasons they don't and can't understand. Most think the govt subsidizes Tesla.
As far as I know only one person has been legally admonished so far for manipulating the stock and that would be the CEO of Tesla.

It's a widely shorted stock, but that's nothing new. Stocks have been shorted for a very long time. The reason the stock is down substantially from highs is really just about its valuation being indefensible more than any nefarious orchestrations by people. The diehards will chase this stock down to double digits and scream the entire time that it's not Tesla's fault. There is however enough real money from people looking to make profits that when they see the writing on the wall they pull out. And that's the real reason it's shed 1/3rd of its all time high.

It's not shorted like any other stock, do some real research and you will understand what I'm talking about. You are are not even warm yet.
 
^^ You are speaking in generalities that end up having almost no meaning.
Look at the graph I posted above of the largest cohort of 2013 Tesla batteries available for analysis outside of Tesla itself rather than quoting an anecdote from here or there.

You can ask Tesla why they chose the battery warranty limits, but Tesla also says they expect 300,000 - 500,000 miles from typical use while Nissan says ~ 80,000 miles until end of life.
 
EVDRIVER said:
EatsShootsandLeafs said:
EVDRIVER said:
Do you think Tesla stock is not being manipulated? Tesla could not make target this quarter and loose 1% and they could sell 500K cars and loose 10%. Your assumptions about the stock are as logical as the stock movements. Tesla is not going anywhere soon and any rational person can see that. Trump and Musk do have things in common, Trump supporters would love to see Tesla die for reasons they don't and can't understand. Most think the govt subsidizes Tesla.
As far as I know only one person has been legally admonished so far for manipulating the stock and that would be the CEO of Tesla.

It's a widely shorted stock, but that's nothing new. Stocks have been shorted for a very long time. The reason the stock is down substantially from highs is really just about its valuation being indefensible more than any nefarious orchestrations by people. The diehards will chase this stock down to double digits and scream the entire time that it's not Tesla's fault. There is however enough real money from people looking to make profits that when they see the writing on the wall they pull out. And that's the real reason it's shed 1/3rd of its all time high.

It's not shorted like any other stock, do some real research and you will understand what I'm talking about. You are are not even warm yet.
I can't get into conspiracies right now, but I'll just leave it that TSLA is one of the most shorted stocks. There's nothing weird or nefarious going on. Longs want it to go up, shorts want it to go down. Both sides spread FUD to try and make it happen.

Both sides.

Like with any other stock on the planet in which people have a vested interested in seeing it go up or down.
 
Do some research and I promise you will change your opinion. There is nothing normal about what happens with Tesla or it's stock, I see it first hand and I have first hand knowledge of what goes on, It's pretty pathetic.It's not really a conspiracy any more than what's happening on the news this eve.
 
Haven't watched this yet.

"Here's 30 minutes of straight-up, weirdly calming Porsche Taycan production footage
The paint process is particularly fascinating"
https://www.autoblog.com/2019/10/04/porsche-taycan-assembly-line-video/
 
Riding a burst of electrons, the 2020 Porsche Taycan Turbo S scorches the German Autobahn en route to Hamburg. Its projected range is becoming perilously low, which is to be expected considering I'm seeing 268 km/h on the dramatically curved digital instrument panel. That equates to 167 mph, and I haven’t dipped below 100 for the past half-hour. Pulling off the highway, another type of EV velocity is on display: inhaling DC at nearly 270 kilowatts, the Taycan replenishes its 93-kWh underfloor battery from 8-to-80 percent capacity in precisely 20 minutes. Based on my driving and calculations, it adds nearly 50 miles of range for every five minutes of max charging, resulting in the quickest “opportunity charging” of any EV. The expanding fast-charging network of VW Group's Electrify America is the other half of that equation, representing a key answer to Tesla's currently unmatched Supercharger network.

During an addictive series of launch-mode runs, we learned the importance of pressing skulls into the headrest before unleashing the NASA-style catapult, to avoid whiplash. Yet doing so also highlights a not-so-subtle point of comparison Porsche is trying to make in regards to Tesla: that the Taycan's systems and componentry are more reliable, and its resulting performance endlessly repeatable. Besides inherent differences in engineering and proving, Porsche's supposed advantage is due in part to a pioneering 800-volt electrical architecture (double that of the 400-volt Model S) that yields numerous benefits: dramatically reduced charging times, less strain on batteries and thermal management while charging, consistent high-performance output from electric motors, and sharply lowered weight and space requirements for high-voltage cables.

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/10/04/porsche-taycan-assembly-line-video/
 
IEVS:
Porsche Taycan 4S Revealed: Offers Two Battery Sizes
https://insideevs.com/news/376127/porsche-taycan-4s-debut/


The Taycan 4S can be ordered immediately and is scheduled to arrive in US dealerships in spring 2020. Prices in the US start at $103,800 for the Taycan 4S with the Performance Battery, and $110,380 for the Taycan 4S equipped with the Performance Battery Plus. The Taycan Turbo starts at $150,900, and the Taycan Turbo S starts at $185,000, all excluding $1,350 for processing, delivery and handling.


0-60 in 3.8 sec. compared to sub-3 sec. for the more expensive trims, owing to lower power and torque. The Plus battery is the same 93 kWh as on the turbo/Turbo S, while the base 4S gets a 79kWh battery. Other differences are shown on an options chart.
 
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