2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

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Sage Brush,
I never post kWh readings from Leaf Spy because they are based upon the scaling factor chosen by the user. I post the "Gid" value because Leaf Spy reads that number directly from the car. I personally have the scaling factor set to 80 watt hours per "Gid" because that was the value noted by Phil back in 2011 (and also printed in early versions of the service manual). I have a "Gid" meter that I assembled from a kit I purchased from Gary in 2012 so using 80 allowed me to directly compare readings from Leaf Spy to readings from the meter on the older cars. I used a Y-cable and kept both Gid meter and Leaf Spy running in the older cars. I don't know if the Gid Meter is compatible with the CAN Bus in the new car and there is no place to put it with the new dash/console design so I have not tried to use it. i kept the setting at 80 Wh/Gid with the new car so I can directly compare data with records from my old cars. For comparison, my older cars always hit LBW at 49 Gids, VLBW at 24 Gids, Turtle at 5 Gids, and Shutdown at 4 Gids (other cars may be different and less consistent because I always charged to 100% and discharged deeply so the cells were well balanced). The Gids at full charge for the 2015 were 282 or 283 when new and started to slowly drop after about 6 months. The Gids at full charge on the replacement battery in the 2011 started a little lower and immediately started to decline slowly.

The kWh, peak demand, voltage, and current measurements came from a revenue-accuracy smart meter on the branch circuit which supplies the EVSE.

Dave,
The SOC percent on the dash display did go to flashing --- after counting down to 1%, but I did not note the Gid reading. I know it was flashing dashes when power-limited mode (Turtle) happened at 9 Gids.
 
GerryAZ said:
Dave,
The SOC percent on the dash display did go to flashing --- after counting down to 1%, but I did not note the Gid reading. I know it was flashing dashes when power-limited mode (Turtle) happened at 9 Gids.

I would guess all the events are percentage based which explains why the hidden reserve grows as the pack gets larger but on my 40, the SOC meter goes blank at 25 or 26 GIDs or.... the same as VLB on the 24's. I thought that was interesting.

Now the dilemma was naming this event. I originally thought of Super Turtle but since there was no power limiting I decided against that as being too misleading although power limiting does happen before Turtle shows up.

So I settled on "SUCKS"

Severely Under Charged Kinetic System

:cool:
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
GerryAZ said:
Dave,
The SOC percent on the dash display did go to flashing --- after counting down to 1%, but I did not note the Gid reading. I know it was flashing dashes when power-limited mode (Turtle) happened at 9 Gids.

I would guess all the events are percentage based which explains why the hidden reserve grows as the pack gets larger but on my 40, the SOC meter goes blank at 25 or 26 GIDs or.... the same as VLB on the 24's. I thought that was interesting.

Now the dilemma was naming this event. I originally thought of Super Turtle but since there was no power limiting I decided against that as being too misleading although power limiting does happen before Turtle shows up.

So I settled on "SUCKS"

Severely Under Charged Kinetic System

:cool:

:)
 
We made it by 7:15, so we had plenty of time to get to our show. We saw a production of Macbeth, which was very good, so I’m glad we didn’t miss the start. I’ll post more details about our drive down later, but the quick summary is we drove 65-70 the whole way, the battery got up to 114F, and charging slowed down to 30kW at our final top-up. Much better than previous trips!
 
Astros said:
We made it by 7:15, so we had plenty of time to get to our show. We saw a production of Macbeth, which was very good, so I’m glad we didn’t miss the start. I’ll post more details about our drive down later, but the quick summary is we drove 65-70 the whole way, the battery got up to 114F, and charging slowed down to 30kW at our final top-up. Much better than previous trips!

Good job! I take it no major traffic issues then
 
We got back home last night, so I can finally write up our trip with our Leaf Plus. We've taken this same trip from Seattle to Ashland previously with a 30kWh and a 40kWh Leaf, and in previous years it took us almost 13 hours, mostly due to very slow charging.

According to Google Maps, with no stops or traffic our route should be 462 miles and take 7 hours and 32 minutes. We ran into very little traffic, and no broken or occupied chargers on our trip South, and reached Ashland in 10 hours and 38 minutes. On the return trip, we ran into rush hour traffic in Portland, and two of the chargers were already occupied by a Leaf when we arrived, so it took us 11 hours and 15 minutes.

Friday
Cruise control set to 65-70 for entire trip, except for short stretches in reduced speed zones or for traffic.
  • 8:38am: leave Seattle
    42°F outside, 55° battery (4 bars)
  • 10:49am: Arrive Castle Rock (Webasto), 121 miles
    48°F outside, 68.2°F battery (5 bars)
    Charging: 44.2kW at the start, 29.6kW at the end with 88.3% SoC. 31.18kWh delivered over 46 minutes, 40.67kW average
  • 11:35am: Leave
    48°F outside, 89.6°F battery (6 bars)
  • 2:53pm: Arrive Cottage Grove (Webasto), 184 miles
    64°F outside, 97°F battery
    --- on dash, 10.5% SoC LeafSpy
    41.6kW at the start, 19.7kW at the end with 73.1% SoC. 38.89kWh delivered over 83 minutes, 28.11kW average
  • 4:16pm: Leave
    68°F outside, 114.8°F battery (8 bars)
  • 6:13pm: Arrive Grants Pass (Webasto), 119 miles
    64°F outside, 113.8°F battery
    30.0 kW at the start, 30.2kW at the end. 7.0kWh delivered over 14 minutes, 30.0kW average
  • 6:28pm: Leave
    64°F outside, 114.8°F battery
  • 7:16pm: Arrive Ashland, 42.5 miles
    55°F outside, 116.6°F battery
    20.9 miles remaining to 1% according to LeafSpy
474 miles total (including 9 miles in the morning for an errand)

Monday return to Seattle
My wife also drove two of the legs, and picked different speeds.
  • 9:51am: Leave Ashland, with 96% SoC
    50°F outside, 53.9°F battery
  • 11:50am: Arrive Sutherlin (Electrify America), 121 miles
    51°F outside, 70.0°F battery
    44.7kW at the start, 34kW at the end, 47.75kW peak. 29.7kWh delivered over 38 minutes, 46.69kW average.
  • 12:36pm: Leave
    (I didn't record temperatures)
  • 2:58pm: Arrive Salem (Blink), 124 miles
    The charger by the capitol was occupied, so we had to drive over to the Fred Meyers to charge.
    32.9kWh delivered over 47 minutes, 42kW average
  • 3:45pm: Leave
    I didn't record temperatures, but 8 bars on the dash
  • 6:21pm: Arrive Castle Rock (Webasto), 102 miles
    59°F outside, 105.6° battery
    43.7 kW at the start. 26.03kWh delivered over 41 minutes, 38.09kW average
  • 7:02pm: Leave
    59°F outside, 120.5°F battery
  • 9:06pm: Arrive Seattle, 121 miles
    51°F outside, 114.6°F battery
    41.2 miles remaining to 1% according to LeafSpy
 
Thanks for the report. Would have been nice is some of those were 100 Kw chargers. Most of what has been going in around here lately have been the 100 KW variety. Although some are 25 KW single phase units in some more isolated spots with only...you know...one phase. :).
 
Agreed, Great report. What was your overall efficiency for the trip? Is the fast charger infa good enough that you could have done more 200 mile sections vs. 120-140 mile seconds and reduced the number of stops/charges?

Of the 3 hours in additional time, how much of that would you have normally had taken (we usually stop for a solid 90 minutes out of every 4 hours driven in an ICE)?
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Agreed, Great report. What was your overall efficiency for the trip? Is the fast charger infa good enough that you could have done more 200 mile sections vs. 120-140 mile seconds and reduced the number of stops/charges?

Of the 3 hours in additional time, how much of that would you have normally had taken (we usually stop for a solid 90 minutes out of every 4 hours driven in an ICE)?

For us it would be more like 45 minutes of stops for every 4 hours of drive time. We have a chihuahua that needs frequent breaks. That and I think my bladder is about the size of the chihuahuas.
 
The car could manage more than ~120 miles between stops, but for us that's about the ideal spacing for breaks. That spacing also allowed us to keep a buffer of ~20% (LeafSpy) in case the next charger was broken or in use, and stop charging around 80% before charging tapered too badly. Our average consumption was 3.7 miles/kWh in both directions, while we averaged 3.8 miles/kWh on this trip with the 40kWh Leaf, and 3.9 miles/kWh with the 30kWh Leaf.

On the trip down we ate an early lunch in Castle Rock, ate an early dinner in Cottage Grove (which is why we were there so long), and stopped for a coffee in Grants Pass. We ate lunch and dinner at the restaurants, so we could have made a shorter stop if we had a gas car and ate while we drove, but we'd rather take the break. Also, while we had very little traffic, we still probably lost ~10 minutes in Seattle and ~20 in Portland, so it would really have taken a gas car ~8 hours. I'd say we usually would average a half hour break after every 2 hours of driving, so stopping for charging didn't add much to the length of our trip, though it did limit our options for where we ate lunch and dinner.

Also, we mostly stuck to the posted speed limit, so we might have driven ~10% faster in a gas car and saved 45 minutes. So, the main impact of taking the Leaf on this trip was fewer choices of where to take a break and get meals, sitting down for meals instead of eating in the car, and not driving over the speed limit.
 
Astros said:
The car could manage more than ~120 miles between stops, but for us that's about the ideal spacing for breaks. That spacing also allowed us to keep a buffer of ~20% (LeafSpy) in case the next charger was broken or in use, and stop charging around 80% before charging tapered too badly. Our average consumption was 3.7 miles/kWh in both directions, while we averaged 3.8 miles/kWh on this trip with the 40kWh Leaf, and 3.9 miles/kWh with the 30kWh Leaf.

On the trip down we ate an early lunch in Castle Rock, ate an early dinner in Cottage Grove (which is why we were there so long), and stopped for a coffee in Grants Pass. We ate lunch and dinner at the restaurants, so we could have made a shorter stop if we had a gas car and ate while we drove, but we'd rather take the break. Also, while we had very little traffic, we still probably lost ~10 minutes in Seattle and ~20 in Portland, so it would really have taken a gas car ~8 hours. I'd say we usually would average a half hour break after every 2 hours of driving, so stopping for charging didn't add much to the length of our trip, though it did limit our options for where we ate lunch and dinner.

Also, we mostly stuck to the posted speed limit, so we might have driven ~10% faster in a gas car and saved 45 minutes. So, the main impact of taking the Leaf on this trip was fewer choices of where to take a break and get meals, sitting down for meals instead of eating in the car, and not driving over the speed limit.

Meh. Seems like a reasonable trade off. Cost of travelling is not a huge budget line item but there is no way it wasn't cheaper in the leaf. Just sayin.
 
webeleafowners said:
Meh. Seems like a reasonable trade off. Cost of travelling is not a huge budget line item but there is no way it wasn't cheaper in the leaf. Just sayin.

Oh, it was much cheaper to take the Leaf. Even if we didn't have the no charge to charge program, Webasto offers unlimited charging for $20/month. Since we used two non-free chargers, we spent $16 to drive 950 miles. At current gas prices, a 30mpg car would cost a little over $100 for this trip. I'm happy to spend that on nice food instead :D

And, the Leaf did get us there with time to spare for our 8pm show, so I have no complaints!
 
Glad you enjoyed your trip @astros, and thanks for reporting.
Sounds like your car did fine, although I presume cool weather helped a lot
 
Astros said:
webeleafowners said:
Meh. Seems like a reasonable trade off. Cost of travelling is not a huge budget line item but there is no way it wasn't cheaper in the leaf. Just sayin.

Oh, it was much cheaper to take the Leaf. Even if we didn't have the no charge to charge program, Webasto offers unlimited charging for $20/month. Since we used two non-free chargers, we spent $16 to drive 950 miles. At current gas prices, a 30mpg car would cost a little over $100 for this trip. I'm happy to spend that on nice food instead :D

And, the Leaf did get us there with time to spare for our 8pm show, so I have no complaints!

And you get to take credit for taking you wife to nicer restaurants...even if it didn't cost you anymore.

It would be interesting to see the trip duration delta if the chargers had been 100 KW units. Our one trip that we make fairly often is exactly 554 kilomters to the hotel (with destination charging. Our halfway point charge stop has a single 50 KW Chademo/CCS station. Petro Can is currently putting in a dual Chademo and Dual CCS in the same town. It should be finished by Christmas. Our Eplus SL arrives in March. Right now with our current leaf (2016 SV) we charge three times. Having said that the 30 KW doesn't take long to charge and doesn't seem to suffer much from multiple charges. Great car.
 
^Considering the level of battery heating and charge rate throttling with the 50 kW chargers, I doubt 100 kW chargers would have saved more than a few minutes.

As for the 30 kWh car, the battery charges quickly but the problem is finding places to charge within range. Not counting the ones in town, the closest L3 for me is 150 km down a busy highway with an average speed close to 120 km/h. Causing a traffic jam by driving 90 km/h to barely make it just isn't a reasonable option, so my Leaf is strictly a city car.
 
While I haven't charged at rates above 70-73kW, I would hypothesize that charging at a faster rate creates less heat per kWh of charge. It would be interesting to see heat vs. power at different rates.
 
Titanium48 said:
^Considering the level of battery heating and charge rate throttling with the 50 kW chargers, I doubt 100 kW chargers would have saved more than a few minutes.

As for the 30 kWh car, the battery charges quickly but the problem is finding places to charge within range. Not counting the ones in town, the closest L3 for me is 150 km down a busy highway with an average speed close to 120 km/h. Causing a traffic jam by driving 90 km/h to barely make it just isn't a reasonable option, so my Leaf is strictly a city car.

Yah I hear ya. That’s the way it was here four years ago. Now pretty much every 50 to 80 kilometres there is at least one Chademo/CCS (and sometimes two or three) in every direction from our place. And there is a lot more in the works. The government actually used a leaf to plan the sites when the project started a few years ago. The government is leading the way but the private players are also part of the planning. Petrocan, Canadian Tire, Shell etc. We have a socialist government in this province so the goverment is very involved in the buildout. As well BC hydro is also a public (owned by the province) utility and they are big time into infrastructure buildout for all major and minor highways. BC passed a law a few months back that all vehicles sold after Jan 1st 2040 must be zero emmision. Dealerships have some time to push their manufacturers to build more Electric vehicles. If they don’t it’s going to be a province full of Tesla’s and leafs. :).

Presently, for all intense purposes 100 percent of our power comes from hydro except for isolated areas. Kinda cool.
 
^^Heating during charge (or discharge) is a result of internal resistance in the battery. Power dissipation by resistance is proportional to current squared, so doubling the current quadruples the heating rate. The battery charges in half the time if the higher current can be sustained, but accumulates twice as much heat.

^It is not at all surprising that the Alberta government is much less involved in charging infrastructure deployment, but it is disappointing that everything North of highway 1 has been largely ignored by the non-government players as well. Edmonton is by far the largest city not included in any of their plans.
 
Titanium48 said:
^^Heating during charge (or discharge) is a result of internal resistance in the battery. Power dissipation by resistance is proportional to current squared, so doubling the current quadruples the heating rate. The battery charges in half the time if the higher current can be sustained, but accumulates twice as much heat.

^It is not at all surprising that the Alberta government is much less involved in charging infrastructure deployment, but it is disappointing that everything North of highway 1 has been largely ignored by the non-government players as well. Edmonton is by far the largest city not included in any of their plans.

Yep. It actually affects our plans a bit. We lived for 8 years in cold lake. Lots of friends up there. No way of getting up there. At some point tourist numbers will start to get affected for areas that have no EV infrastructure.
 
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