Official Tesla Model 3 thread

Thanks Sagebrush

In the comments there were a couple dozen people that confirmed seeing something similar (and some that haven’t noticed anything).

Hey, Bjorn said that driving style doesn’t impact miles remaining on the GOM. I have seen other you tube posts suggesting that there is a very very mild adjustment based on driving style.

What’s your experience?

What are you calling a GOM ? As Bjorn said, the range remaining (or % remaining) displayed in the upper left of the screen is not a GOM. That is why people try to use it as a surrogate degradation marker ... and fail, because the calculation has constants that are set (and perhaps changed) by Tesla

When it comes to figuring out battery capacity there are only really two half decent methods available to regular people: 1, relying on the odometer and Wh/mile meter; and 2, relying on the electrical meter during a charging session. Bjorn tries to correlate these two methods to be more confident of his results. Any other method or car reading is very unreliable.

DougWantsALeaf said:

Thanks Sagebrush

In the comments there were a couple dozen people that confirmed seeing something similar (and some that haven’t noticed anything).

Hey, Bjorn said that driving style doesn’t impact miles remaining on the GOM. I have seen other you tube posts suggesting that there is a very very mild adjustment based on driving style.

What’s your experience?

Click to expand...

Switch the battery capacity view to percentage and treat it like a gas gauge. When the low battery light comes on (less than 20%), plan to charge soon (about 30+ miles of range left). That would take away any anxiety about how accurate the range estimates are.

The navigation estimates on remaining charge are different, since they do factor in current rate of energy consumption (and elevation changes along the way), and show up to the right of your driving directions.

If possible, you should borrow a Tesla model 3 to see this for yourself. Some EV concerns just don't transfer.

DougWantsALeaf said:

In the comments there were a couple dozen people that confirmed seeing something similar (and some that haven’t noticed anything).

Click to expand...

My meter this AM shows 140 miles of range and 40% SoC. 140/0.45 = 311 miles extrapolated to 100%. That is the same it has been from day #1.

IF I am right that a minority of Model 3 owners are going to be tweaked because they use 200 kW chargers at a frequency similar to Bjorn -- say 1% of the fleet, then the total number of reports could approach ~ 2000 in the USA from cars sold to date. For now we might have reports affecting 0.001% of the USA fleet.

Thanks for the update. Glad to hear its not "system wide" for user, but a subset. From the number of users impacted in the thread, guessing its wider than the 200KW charging club. Maybe older model 3's (and X and S)? I don't know if Tesla has tweaked battery design/chem as its been producing the car.

Bjorn has created a flurry of videos of comparable experiences.

https://youtu.be/SoBYNJ4cMBM

Whether this endemic or not, a don’t have a horse in the race, but cool to see the community quickly activate.

Tesla crowd, did you see the Bjorn video?

https://youtu.be/SVm3muFrJbA

45-54 degrees C during fast charging. Did the old S batteries run that hot in the earlier chemistries?

I am hoping this bodes well for the Leaf too, as I have found no power restrictions in the plus, even when the battery is at the high temp mark, nor declines in efficiency.

Li-x batteries are OK below 60C for short periods of time, and in fact charge better at the higher temps. That is why Tesla lets the battery heat up into the 50 - 55C range during very fast DC charging, and then cools the battery down within a few minutes once charging has stopped.

Degradation happens when the battery stews at high temperatures. That would be the LEAF.

Rapid-gate happens for two reasons:
1. To be sure not to exceed 60C. No way for the LEAF to dissipate heat actively
2. To try and avoid temps into the 50s C that then hang around for prolonged periods

So no joy for your LEAF

SageBrush said:

Li-x batteries are OK below 60C for short periods of time, and in fact charge better at the higher temps. That is why Tesla lets the battery heat up into the 50 - 55C range during very fast DC charging, and then cools the battery down within a few minutes once charging has stopped.

Click to expand...

I'm assuming you meant to say that Li-x batteries are OK above 60C for short periods of time, and in fact charge better at the higher temps.

A friend of mine is seriously considering a Model 3 or a Leaf S+ so I went with him for a testdrive on the Tesla in Richmond last week. I had driven an SR+ before but all they had was a dual motor this time so we took that around. Dual motor is ridiculously fast, I can't imagine what the performance model is like to drive. We were fairly confident that it would smoke his 2018 mustang GT up until at least 75mph.

One interesting thing was that you can in fact still get the $35k SR "off menu" for $38500 out the door (including destination & doc fee + state taxes). It is just a software limited version of the SR+ that loses 30 miles of range, autopilot, adaptive cruise, heated seats, and a few other minor bells and whistles. Delivery times are 8-10 weeks (according to salesman) on that model right now so cutting it close with the expiration of the $1875 tax credit but not a bad deal now that white is the standard color. The lack of heated seats is a real bummer but none of the other "restrictions" seemed like that big of a deal to me. I wouldn't buy a fast car that is fun to drive and then drive with autopilot all the time and the 30 miles of range is minor unless you drive out of town. Plus I'm sure they'd let you enable things for a fee down the road.

He was also impressed with the Leaf S+, it wasn't as fast as the Model 3 but he liked the hatchback, preferred traditional gauges/controls, and thought it was pretty quick as well. It gets the full $7500 tax credit + a state utility rebate of $2500 and can be negotiated down to around $34k OTD right now so over $12k cheaper net than the cheapest Model 3.

He says he drives cars into the ground so not really worried about resale... I'll be curious to see what he decides.

golfcart said:

SageBrush said:

Li-x batteries are OK below 60C for short periods of time, and in fact charge better at the higher temps. That is why Tesla lets the battery heat up into the 50 - 55C range during very fast DC charging, and then cools the battery down within a few minutes once charging has stopped.

Click to expand...

I'm assuming you meant to say that Li-x batteries are OK above 60C for short periods of time, and in fact charge better at the higher temps.

Click to expand...

.
I meant that 60C is the temp ceiling, albeit only for short periods of time.

golfcart said:

SageBrush said:

Li-x batteries are OK below 60C for short periods of time, and in fact charge better at the higher temps. That is why Tesla lets the battery heat up into the 50 - 55C range during very fast DC charging, and then cools the battery down within a few minutes once charging has stopped.

Click to expand...

I'm assuming you meant to say that Li-x batteries are OK above 60C for short periods of time, and in fact charge better at the higher temps.

Click to expand...

.
I meant batteries can approach 60C for short periods of time without ill effect. The interesting detail from Bjorn's data was that cooling was not started until the battery reached 45C. I would have liked to watch the cooling ramp up as the battery temp increased but Bjorn mentioned that for now he does not have a meter for cooling. I'll watch again at higher volume; perhaps the A/C power maximum threshold can be marked by the noise increase.

Addendum: I could not discern a ramp up in noise from the battery cooling but Bjorn mentioned that he also thought that the car had a lot of untapped cooling. Perhaps the battery coolant flow can be a good surrogate gauge. I've noticed up to 20l/min through the battery, and up to 40l/min total flow through the system.

SageBrush said:

golfcart said:

SageBrush said:

Li-x batteries are OK below 60C for short periods of time, and in fact charge better at the higher temps. That is why Tesla lets the battery heat up into the 50 - 55C range during very fast DC charging, and then cools the battery down within a few minutes once charging has stopped.

Click to expand...

I'm assuming you meant to say that Li-x batteries are OK above 60C for short periods of time, and in fact charge better at the higher temps.

Click to expand...

.
I meant that 60C is the temp ceiling, albeit only for short periods of time.

Click to expand...

OK that makes more sense, as worded it sounded (to me) like the batteries didn't like to be lower than 60C which would obviously be suspect.

golfcart said:

OK that makes more sense, as worded it sounded (to me) like the batteries didn't like to be lower than 60C which would obviously be suspect.

Click to expand...

.
It sounded goofy to me too after I read it again.

I've been reading about Li plating. I wonder if high battery temperatures are actually required at very high charging speeds in order to avoid plating. @LorenFB might know.

It looks like the longer range is only on new 3’s and not existing. From the Tesla Forums:

fearghus1 | October 20, 2019
All, I recently booked SR+ and I’m picking up my car in 2 days. My Tesla advisor confirmed that this is a hardware change within the car. She didn’t have any other info as in what exactly is changing. But she said I cannot pay $500 and get the 10 miles range in my SR+. I need to cancel and place a new order to get the 250 mile range..

DougWantsALeaf said:

It looks like the longer range is only on new 3’s and not existing. From the Tesla Forums:

fearghus1 | October 20, 2019
All, I recently booked SR+ and I’m picking up my car in 2 days. My Tesla advisor confirmed that this is a hardware change within the car. She didn’t have any other info as in what exactly is changing. But she said I cannot pay $500 and get the 10 miles range in my SR+. I need to cancel and place a new order to get the 250 mile range..

Click to expand...

Tesla advisors know about as much as your average MNL poster when it comes to these things. Take what you hear with a grain of salt. The advisor may have been just pointing out that the software is not yet ready for fleet deployment so the only way to get the increased range *today* is as she said.

SageBrush said:

DougWantsALeaf said:

It looks like the longer range is only on new 3’s and not existing. From the Tesla Forums:

fearghus1 | October 20, 2019
All, I recently booked SR+ and I’m picking up my car in 2 days. My Tesla advisor confirmed that this is a hardware change within the car. She didn’t have any other info as in what exactly is changing. But she said I cannot pay $500 and get the 10 miles range in my SR+. I need to cancel and place a new order to get the 250 mile range..

Click to expand...

Tesla advisors know about as much as your average MNL poster when it comes to these things. Take what you hear with a grain of salt. The advisor may have been just pointing out that the software is not yet ready for fleet deployment so the only way to get the increased range *today* is as she said.

Click to expand...

That could not be more true. If you want really bad advice on a Tesla call an advisor.

Bloomberg is running an interesting series on the model 3 that surveys 5000 owners. Should be an interesting read, the first installment is available.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2019-tesla-model-3-survey/?srnd=premium

GCR:

Tesla Model 3 is approved for NYC yellow cab duty

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https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1125761_tesla-model-3-is-approved-for-nyc-yellow-cab-duty


This should work a lot better than using 24kWh LEAFs or similar very range-limited BEVs as cabs. In releated news, also GCR:

London gets first official electric black cab in 120 years

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https://www.greencarreports.com/new...irst-official-electric-black-cab-in-120-years

A 40kWh pack said to provide 174 miles of range seems less likely to be adequate, especially with only 50kW charging, although if restricted to the dense ULEV-areas of London it might be okay.

I just left London yesterday (now I’m in Mumbai). EVs in the center of London with the 40 battery will be plenty sufficient if driven with care. Cant’s say we broke 20 mph anywhere in the cabs we were in for the day between meetings.

Looking to site an ev here in India. A former colleague just started working at Tata power and is partially charged (bad pun) with working through issues/data with EV charging now that India is moving forward more quickly.