What's new for 2020?

looks nissan will have a all new ev platform crossover ARIYA out with 300 miles range and liquid cooling battery pack.

https://insideevs.com/news/377633/nissan-ariya-child-leaf-rogue/

question is will nissan put some sort of cooling system to 2020 leaf battery? otherwise the leaf is dead

I have a 2019 Leaf. I love the car but find some of the navigation warnings (ie. narrow, road, unpaved road) as a total waste and disrupting to my driving experience. I wish I could selectively turn off these warnings. I cannot find a single documentation on this. I am disappointed that you had no luck either.

Not everyone would benefit from battery cooling. If you don't live in a place with hellishly hot summers and you don't use your Leaf for long road trips with multiple QCs, the battery doesn't overheat. Mine never went over 6 bars last summer, and spent all but a few days at 5.
On the other hand, a battery cooling system could become a more effective battery heating system in winter, which would be useful.

Lots of videos appearing today with a dual Motor Leaf

https://youtu.be/lSxhR27fr8w

And potential Nismo edition Leaf. I don’t know if those would come to the US or not.

Titanium48 said:

Not everyone would benefit from battery cooling. If you don't live in a place with hellishly hot summers and you don't use your Leaf for long road trips with multiple QCs, the battery doesn't overheat. Mine never went over 6 bars last summer, and spent all but a few days at 5.
On the other hand, a battery cooling system could become a more effective battery heating system in winter, which would be useful.

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Big portions of the south west though really need that cooling. I had stretches this summer where my battery didn't get below 100F even late at night or early morning. Nobody really knows yet what that will do to 2018s and 2019s, but it can't be helpful.

The 2018 and 2019 cars have a completely different battery chemistry that is much more durable and heat tolerant. As long as the average temp is between the 2nd blue and 1st red bar, the battery will be fine.



Granted the current design has been going strong for almost 4 years now, (2 in hot weather testing at the Nissan Arizona proving ground) and two in the hands of customers, there is yet to be any negative reports on the durability of the new design.

The challenge is that most are still comparing the new battery's performance using the metrics from the earlier designs.

danrjones said:

Big portions of the south west though really need that cooling. I had stretches this summer where my battery didn't get below 100F even late at night or early morning. Nobody really knows yet what that will do to 2018s and 2019s, but it can't be helpful.

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That isn't clear, longer term. There are Li-ion batteries that have full life at 100C and can be wave soldered onto boards at 270C. Sure, only tiny volumes are available, and can't be scaled to automotive sizes. Yet.

Battery technology isn't constant.

As for the 2018/2019 LEAF batteries, only time will tell.

OrientExpress said:

The 2018 and 2019 cars have a completely different battery chemistry that is much more durable and heat tolerant. As long as the average temp is between the 2nd blue and 1st red bar, the battery will be fine.


Granted the current design has been going strong for almost 4 years now, (2 in hot weather testing at the Nissan Arizona proving ground) and two in the hands of customers, there is yet to be any negative reports on the durability of the new design.

The challenge is that most are still comparing the new battery's performance using the metrics from the earlier designs.

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What exactly does "fine" mean? From the data people are posting here, 2018's seem to be approaching 7-10% loss. The loss may indeed be irregardless of heat - it could be completely based on age. My battery SOH seems almost the same as other 2018's here but they have 10x the mileage. But either way, who defines what "fine" means? Tesla owners are reporting 100k miles on a model 3 with only 2.5% degradation.

Or are you saying that the numbers we are watching of Leafspy are meaningless? That our 2018 batteries SOH is actually still near 100%?

danrjones said:

My battery SOH seems almost the same as other 2018's here but they have 10x the mileage.
...

Or are you saying that the numbers we are watching of Leafspy are meaningless? That our 2018 batteries SOH is actually still near 100%?

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https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=539274#p539274

About all we can do is compare notes, make observations (e.g. readings vs. capacity bars) and run tests (e.g. range, charge/disharge) to see how closely any of them correlate w/apparent capacity loss.

I shudder when people assert that whatever SOH LeafSpy renders IS their remaining capacity given that Nissan (AFAIK) has never acknowledged nor released any documentation on the values LeafSpy can display. Even w/my 11 bar '13 Leaf's SOH of 81.xx to 83.xx%, I tell people that probably my capacity is around 81 to 83% remaining. And, if needed, I mention the same caveats/disclaimers.

Or are you saying that the numbers we are watching of Leafspy are meaningless? That our 2018 batteries SOH is actually still near 100%?

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OrientExpress is, for whatever reason, a shill for Nissan. He regularly writes misleading and even wildly inaccurate things here. He should be treated as he'd like you to treat LeafSpy: as entertainment only.

OrientExpress said:

The 2018 and 2019 cars have a completely different battery chemistry that is much more durable and heat tolerant. As long as the average temp is between the 2nd blue and 1st red bar, the battery will be fine.

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Where are your citations for a new battery chemistry? A bigger battery, Yes. Different chemistry, Maybe, Maybe not. The packaging is different to get the bigger battery into the same space. I haven't seen any claims from Nissan offering more durability or better heat tolerance. The rapidgate issue would seem to belie that claim. Nissan is still making the batteries through their subsidiary (they couldn't sell the battery business).

LeftieBiker said:

OrientExpress is, for whatever reason, a shill for Nissan. He regularly writes misleading and even wildly inaccurate things here. He should be treated as he'd like you to treat LeafSpy: as entertainment only.

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This is very true.

But...

The SOH value in 2018s and 2019s seems to behave differently than it did in prior models. From what I've seen posted on MNL, I'm no longer sure it is as closely tied to battery degradation as it used to be.

But there has to be a variable inside the computer is tied to the health bars being displayed. Whether that variable is SOH that leaf spy is looking at is another question.

OrientExpress said:

The 2018 and 2019 cars have a completely different battery chemistry that is much more durable and heat tolerant. As long as the average temp is between the 2nd blue and 1st red bar, the battery will be fine.

Granted the current design has been going strong for almost 4 years now, (2 in hot weather testing at the Nissan Arizona proving ground) and two in the hands of customers, there is yet to be any negative reports on the durability of the new design.

The challenge is that most are still comparing the new battery's performance using the metrics from the earlier designs.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the helpful info!

I hope that the above was sarcasm. OE posts, at best, Nissan marketing content. At worst, he makes things up. That battery temp graphic does not represent the actual safe zone for that battery, which should have the yellow beginning two thirds of the way over from the left, not 4/5ths.

Leftie

That’s what I thought a few months back, but after watching the Bjorn videos showing thermally managed batteries happily staying in the upper 40’s for durations, even low 50’s.. maybe the newer chemistries hold up better at higher temps.

Nothing to back that besides the you tube videos though.

That’s what I thought a few months back, but after watching the Bjorn videos showing thermally managed batteries happily staying in the upper 40’s for durations, even low 50’s.. maybe the newer chemistries hold up better at higher temps.

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None of those thermally controlled batteries are Nissan's, obviously. We know that the Leaf 40kwh packs don't do well at sustained high temps, which is why Nissan throttles back charging. We know that the 40kwh pack is slow to cool, so I think that what I wrote about Nissan putting the "yellow zone" in the wrong place on that graphic is perfectly valid. The current location is at about 9 or 10 temp bars - far too high.

We are so freakin lucky. Our climate is very well suited to the leaf. This summer the hottest our battery ever got was seven bars on a hot day (33 degrees) and two fast charges. Other than that 6 was the highest and five was common. The last month or so it has never been above 4. . My battery is going to last forever...and we are probably selling it next year. Lol. (Replacing it with the Eplus SL).

Does yours have the Premium Package?

We are also now back to 4 bar territory here in Chicago. Even my last trip with fast charge sessions and hard freeway driving (70+mph) never saw the battery above mid 80s (post fast charge and declined from there on the highway).

Only downside is that that cold thicker air cuts into your efficiency.