Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

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Andrey said:
While I'm waiting Cor to reply - did anyone try to replace sockets on G2 battery (power & control) or wires on G1 Leaf to attach G2 battery to G1 Leaf without swapping cells?
There's "retrofitting procedure" https://testing-public.carmd.com/Tsb/Download/126060/NTB14-059c available for G2 battery, but it assumes you buy already modded battery with right sockets and do several mechanical things outside the battery to fit it to G1.
G1 == Leaf 10-12 , G2 == Leaf 13-17

My Leaf`12 has cold climate package, if that help.

Cor has primarily done cell swaps, but he's done a lot of them. He did at least one battery exchange and didn't mention anything about wire differences, but did mention that the cover panels underneath the pack differ from G1 to G2.

Dala noted that the G1 and G2 harnesses were different. When I did my pack swap, the wiring all hooked right up, so it appears that if you order a replacement pack (or get a warranty replacement), the pack comes to wire to the car--not with adapters and wiring harnesses.
 
Lothsahn said:
Cor has primarily done cell swaps, but he's done a lot of them. He did at least one battery exchange and didn't mention anything about wire differences, but did mention that the cover panels underneath the pack differ from G1 to G2.

Dala noted that the G1 and G2 harnesses were different. When I did my pack swap, the wiring all hooked right up, so it appears that if you order a replacement pack (or get a warranty replacement), the pack comes to wire to the car--not with adapters and wiring harnesses.

Of course when you order it (or get it by warranty) this already has proper connectors, so that dealer just swap batteries.
I wonder if anybody tried to swap connectors on those. Also wonder if it will work w/o heater connected and will it work with G1 controllers.

AFAIK my native battery connection is like that:
nissan_leaf_battery_pack_dc_03_2011_1629-e1470415227690-1.jpg


My G2 battery has following connectors (real photo):
MNUEP-7In9BlEw_26_bOV9YkkRjVxClB37Wda9d4H6JzHmc8jalV52KdTpWpR64XhxnumImOT3sFyhPMSEwET3DSgK4zbOpf5iN8goWqX5lDGrvUvH3haHRYmVQb22guiyOCvVoztI3gUMEdr9UToj8O_nKsBVME5qfQmh2-WO30q604ueFU-vH73Xc2nww_5pCaSAZDgn5v6oag2_Q1WmWJzeOwvRlzyDQD5RLINRF1C5_Qh-R6ZOf3LWxGweMKGb0RYHEIKdSIZj3nwnyOZfY9p5kzEQnjrKzb9zIH-OMzA6rOxgqggQ0vqLlewC8iPmI-RtOPIncih36O1l_fKqxV8ymFWVaFbChOG_CGwFSY3s2KWrj4bh6IzuoEAx8n3PlQo6UI6JQP7Ro3WscmdLsesOlw6N2iCuY5kvKexygehkbrKNA2o7vjEKFa6NJKfZHx9ml8ifBHkepELYjNFEH2Jjf4JHTOx_Q8YYHklKmZHqX0IPlhVuIi3x_uej95Tt2nlO834TdU-saySia22_RIjp1rGE8t_nt-v6rhULeDxsqmxSktVK4us7sVwuoARan2gOik1hz1TY1AflmYWdWH7Ig4IETuAiwCGr0K2jxXuaJ--YOXsBJvFqSFGhfOiLkjGbPjjL5ggxGFnTBW_vLQmzBSfPsbNvAZyDJuEBShSPgxBNnu_w=w1398-h1048-no
 
If you find a mismatch between the heaters, I'm not sure if you can just swap the heater plug and coil and such. You may be able to.

However, if it throws diagnostic codes due to the heater the BMS doesn't know about, and you do a BMS swap... you MUST swap the busbars and balancing connectors and cabling WITH the BMS.

NEVER EVER use the busbars and other wires from a G1 battery with a G2 BMS (or vice versa). You WILL fry your BMS.


At the end of the day, the replacement that will always work is a cell swap. Simply swap all of the cells from the Good battery to the original (bad) battery, using the BMS, wires, connectors, and heater (or lack thereof) from the original battery. However, this does involve opening up the battery, working with high voltages, and the batteries themselves are heavy--both the entire pack and the banks of batteries. So it's not a job for the weak or faint of heart.
 
Andrey said:
AFAIK my native battery connection is like that:
nissan_leaf_battery_pack_dc_03_2011_1629-e1470415227690-1.jpg

This photo is of a pre-production prototype. No car in the wild has these connectors or internal details AFAIK. Don't use it as a reference.

G1 packs have tons of bolts and a rubber seal.
G2s are bonded.

Putting G2 cells into G1 wiring does indeed fry the BMS. I know because I've done it :oops: I'm now running around with G2 cells in my G1 battery case, BMS, hardware, wiring. I've not found connector adapters but it seems thoroughly possible.

Personally rather than spending hours & $$ to go from 60% of a 24kWh Leaf to 80% I'd spend my money on helping these guys get their prototype 36+kWh battery into production.

https://bluecars.nz/nissan-leaf-battery-replacement-project/

But I do work for them so I would say that!
 
NiallDarwin said:
Putting G2 cells into G1 wiring does indeed fry the BMS. I know because I've done it :oops: I'm now running around with G2 cells in my G1 battery case, BMS, hardware, wiring. I've not found connector adapters but it seems thoroughly possible.

To be clear, putting G2 cells into a G1 pack won't fry the BMS. The BMS frying happens when you swap the BMS, but not also the busbars and all other connectors & wiring. As long as you *just* swap cells, you won't fry the BMS.

I know you knew this Niall, but I wanted to be clear to anyone reading this topic.
 
NiallDarwin said:
Personally rather than spending hours & $$ to go from 60% of a 24kWh Leaf to 80% I'd spend my money on helping these guys get their prototype 36+kWh battery into production.

https://bluecars.nz/nissan-leaf-battery-replacement-project/

But I do work for them so I would say that!


$13k USD for a 36 kWh pack. That's quite exciting! I hope you guys get to scale, get prices down even a little bit more, and offer product in the US.

I think you'll find a *ton* of interest in such a pack for ~$10-11k.
 
Lothsahn said:
$13k USD for a 36 kWh pack. That's quite exciting! I hope you guys get to scale, get prices down even a little bit more, and offer product in the US.

I think you'll find a *ton* of interest in such a pack for ~$10-11k.

Thanks :D

I'm just contracting design, build & commissioning services to them. Cash to fund the project is the issue. If they can get a decent amount of pre-sales or investment they can get it done sooner and have more success and therefore more cash.
 
Seems my Leaf should have battery heater as per https://www.cars.com/articles/2012-nissan-leaf-battery-warmer-more-details-1420663161727/, but I didn't find any signs of it in Energy Info menu.

I found another image on Ebay - power socket is the same, control socket IDK, but no heater socket:
s-l1600.jpg


Thanks all, I know what to do if I only swap cells, but here I'm looking for the way how to swap G2 <-> G1 battery.

$13k, $15k, $20k - all that is too much for this car, I want to keep it cheap.
 
Andrey said:
$13k, $15k, $20k - all that is too much for this car, I want to keep it cheap.

That's why I'm most excited about Mux's system. Theoretically his method can scale to any future battery tech, if there's a new cheaper source of batteries for example. Personally, I'm still hanging on to my 9.8kWH of PHEV batteries. They'll need to be supplemented with another high drain pack, possibly using VTC4 cells as they're one of the most robust 18650s for charging/discharging rate. After I get my "main" extender pack set up, I can keep adding range to it in the future, with less and less stress on each incremental pack of cells (and on the original pack too).
 
Andrey said:
Seems my Leaf should have battery heater as per https://www.cars.com/articles/2012-nissan-leaf-battery-warmer-more-details-1420663161727/, but I didn't find any signs of it in Energy Info menu.

I found another image on Ebay - power socket is the same, control socket IDK, but no heater socket:
s-l1600.jpg


Thanks all, I know what to do if I only swap cells, but here I'm looking for the way how to swap G2 <-> G1 battery.

$13k, $15k, $20k - all that is too much for this car, I want to keep it cheap.

Andrey,

Do you already have the battery pack? If you have a 2012 with heated seats, yours does have the battery heater. The battery heater is a 3rd plug on the front of the battery.

The best thing to get would be a wrecked 2012 showing 12 bars. That would be a warranty replacement pack, as 2012's with an original pack would have degraded by now. If you do that, the battery swap tool from Evsenhanced would make it an easy swap: https://evsenhanced.com/products/hv-battery-pairing-tool/

If you already have a pack and it's not that, then buy a pack from 2013+. 2011's are missing the battery heater, so you won't want that. If you go this route, you'll need to make or get an adapter harness from 22->36 pin. I don't know anyone selling those.

You'll want to get the cover panels from underneath the wrecked Leaf. These panels differ from G1 to G2, so you'll need them from the Donor leaf.

Finally, if the Donor leaf isn't a 2011/2012, you'll need the adapter kit sold by Nissan. I don't have the part number but basically it's an adapter bracket that fits to the bottom of the car to accept the new battery mounting.

Or you can swap cells.

Good luck!
 
Lothsahn said:
Do you already have the battery pack? If you have a 2012 with heated seats, yours does have the battery heater. The battery heater is a 3rd plug on the front of the battery.
Yes, I posted real picture of 2014 battery pack I already purchased: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=570877#p570877
If I have a heater already in my Leaf`12 why it doesn't show up in Energy Info menu?

Lothsahn said:
The best thing to get would be a wrecked 2012 showing 12 bars. That would be a warranty replacement pack, as 2012's with an original pack would have degraded by now. If you do that, the battery swap tool from Evsenhanced would make it an easy swap: https://evsenhanced.com/products/hv-battery-pairing-tool/
Like in above, 2014 pack is waiting installation. Finding wrecked 2012 with replaced battery is like finding gem. Yes, you told me about the tool, I remember that.

Lothsahn said:
If you already have a pack and it's not that, then buy a pack from 2013+. 2011's are missing the battery heater, so you won't want that. If you go this route, you'll need to make or get an adapter harness from 22->36 pin. I don't know anyone selling those.
I need to drop my battery first and see. I don't know easy way to peek what connectors are without dropping it.

Lothsahn said:
You'll want to get the cover panels from underneath the wrecked Leaf. These panels differ from G1 to G2, so you'll need them from the Donor leaf.

Finally, if the Donor leaf isn't a 2011/2012, you'll need the adapter kit sold by Nissan. I don't have the part number but basically it's an adapter bracket that fits to the bottom of the car to accept the new battery mounting.
That's easy part, you can buy all the stuff from retrofitting doc for $200, including covers and brackets.

Lothsahn said:
Or you can swap cells.
Good luck!
Yes this is known way but hard one. And I won't be able to sell old battery which is still 8 bars. Not sure how popular are just modules.
 
Andrey said:
If I have a heater already in my Leaf`12 why it doesn't show up in Energy Info menu?

The battery heater only turns on when the pack is very cold, doesn't draw a lot of power, and just keeps it above freezing. It doesn't show in energy info. If you have heated seats and you're in the US, you have it. It's part of the cold weather package.

As I understand it, NZ and UK Leafs don't have it.

Andrey said:
I need to drop my battery first and see. I don't know easy way to peek what connectors are without dropping it.

You have 3 connectors, a 22 pin, heater, and the hv connectors. Your 2014 pack has 3 connectors, a 36 pin, heater, and the hv connectors.

Andrey said:
That's easy part, you can buy all the stuff from retrofitting doc for $200, including covers and brackets.

Assuming that also includes the 22->36 pin adapter, you're all set! Get the pairing tool, swap packs, use LeafSpy to clear the codes (there will be lots of them), and then use the pairing tool to clear the P3102 code. You will also need the battery disconnect plug--it's different between G1 and G2, and it wasn't present in your picture.

No need to swap cells with your setup. Should be easy peasy, except for the whole "800 pound battery pack" thing.

Let me know if you're in the US and need someone who rents the battery pairing tool. I can provide you his contact info.
 
Lothsahn said:
Assuming that also includes the 22->36 pin adapter, you're all set! Get the pairing tool, swap packs, use LeafSpy to clear the codes (there will be lots of them), and then use the pairing tool to clear the P3102 code. You will also need the battery disconnect plug--it's different between G1 and G2, and it wasn't present in your picture.
For sake no, no CAN(OBD2?) adapter. Will look what wire does what, I've read somewhere it's interconnectable.

Lothsahn said:
No need to swap cells with your setup. Should be easy peasy, except for the whole "800 pound battery pack" thing.

Let me know if you're in the US and need someone who rents the battery pairing tool. I can provide you his contact info.
Hope so. The battery is 650 pounds. Still heavy but not that much!
I'm in SJ CA, somewhere close to Cor. If everything hooks up I'll PM you, thanks!
 
NiallDarwin said:
Lothsahn said:
$13k USD for a 36 kWh pack. That's quite exciting! I hope you guys get to scale, get prices down even a little bit more, and offer product in the US.

I think you'll find a *ton* of interest in such a pack for ~$10-11k.

Thanks :D

I'm just contracting design, build & commissioning services to them. Cash to fund the project is the issue. If they can get a decent amount of pre-sales or investment they can get it done sooner and have more success and therefore more cash.

There's a company EV West, they are doing EV retrofit kits for ICE cars from wrecked Teslas around this price (battery, motors, controllers, chargers etc.).
If such spending for a cheap car is OK for you, contact them and I'm sure they will find a way to provide you just the battery and controllers for your Leaf. Imagine half or at least 75kWh battery made of non-degrading 18650 elements powering your Leaf.

PS: Not commercial.
 
Andrey said:
For sake no, no CAN(OBD2?) adapter. Will look what wire does what, I've read somewhere it's interconnectable.

The two plugs (22 and 36 pin) are nissan specific, and you'd need an adapter harness created specially for that. I don't know anyone selling such a thing, but you could potentially make one yourself or contact evsenhanced--they may be able to sell you one. evsenhanced has the plugs on some of the other products they DO sell, such as the canbus translator.
 
Asked them, but I can only imagine how much will they charge for that, as they have CAN-EV -> OBD2 harness for $260. I made it myself for the price of OBD2 female port.
http://evsenhanced.com/products/obd2-to-leaf-battery-adapter/

They just replied with
The difference between the 2014 and 2012 battery is not only the different 22 and 36 pin connectors but also a different CAN signal from the LBC. We're working on such adapter. Should be available in 6-8 weeks by price of NDZ$495.
(==$316)

I found where they (probably) get 22-pin male connector: http://apps.us.yazaki.com/ComponentCatalog/Component_Detail.aspx?SearchItemPN=7283875030, looking for PN of 36-pin female connector. Maybe this one: http://apps.us.yazaki.com/ComponentCatalog/Component_Detail.aspx?SearchItemPN=7287106530
 
Valdemar said:
I posted this in another thread, someone on a foreign Leaf forum claimed he hacked the 2011 BMS, he even posted a screenshot of a hex editor (EEPROM image?) and pointed to locations that keep the AHr and the capacity bars. He said he could store whatever values he wanted at those locations effectively restoring the capacity gauge to 12 bars (temporarily of course). Or he could "pair" a 2011 BMS to a 2011 Leaf without Consult III (not clear if battery disassembly was required). Same person said he couldn't hack the 2013+ BMS, or at least not yet, so even with his knowledge your job wouldn't have been easier.
Can you send a message to this post ?
 
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