For SALE 2016 Leaf SV with 9 Bars and 30K Miles, Qualify for New 30Kwh Battery $14000

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powersurge said:
I think that a 2016 with a bad battery would be in the $9-10K direction. For $15k you can get an already great, car, possibly newer than that.

The potential buyer is taking all of the risk and would need to do all the work of negotiations with Nissan, and then not have the car for a week... At least.

What would be the risk? You have till April 2021 to drop 1 bar. I believe a couple SOH points. With regular usage, the leaf battery drops at least 5% SOH annually.. of course more at more extreme climates.

Also, before I take a dime from the perspective buyer, WE can take this leaf to do a battery health test and verify that the BMS version is current at a Nissan Service center so buyer can see with their own eyes. So there is ZERO risk on that.

Also, this is the LEAF EV forum.. has anyone with the 8th bar ever been denied a battery replacement or had to "negotiate". It is automatic. I know, I've replaced the battery on a 2013 under the 5year warranty. Also, it takes ONE whole day because service orders the battery ahead of time. I can find the work order if you want proof. If anyone with 8 bars under warranty that had problems getting the battery replaced, please feel free to share your experience.

The benefits between a $15500 2016 Leaf with a "good" battery and $15500 with "bad" battery should be obvious especially to someone with over 1000 posts. But for the benefit of others, I'll spell it out. You could spend $15500 for a 2016 with a good 3 year old battery or you could spend $15500 to get leaf that could have a brand new battery. so Theoretically, buyer can decide to change out the battery in April of 2021.. and have a 2016 leaf with a Brand New battery whereas the "Good" leaf would then have a 5 year old battery. Ding ding ding ding ding…… What is the Value on that.. Obviously $8000 Value added is what you are telling me.

I understand that there is the "risk" you mention. But I think with members having 4000 and 1500 posts knocking my price. With the information given and your EXTENSIVE Leaf Forum Knowledge, do you want to put a wager that it won’t drop the 9th bar within warranty period. I don’t need 1500 or 4000 post to know that it is guaranteed and there is no risk. Anyone that’s driven the leaf or ran Leaf Spy would know this. Leaf battery experts are welcome to argue for and against.

Also.. in terms of price.. I don’t think I am taking advantage of any buyer.. it is a GREAT price for its selling point.. and again.. I am not asking for more than a “good” leaf price. There are buyers that would look for a car in this condition for the advantage listed. Its a little wishful to think that this should be priced at $10k.. which is much less than a 2016 Leaf S with the 24whr battery. And even a 2015 Leaf for that matter.
 
The interesting gotcha for this car is that the buyer has to manage with 9 bar range. The anticipated future improvement in range does not help today or the upcoming winter. And prospective buyers should understand that a replacement battery under warranty will continue the original warranty -- no resetting of the clock.

Remember that saying that a bird in hand is worth two in bush ? This offer feels like the opposite: $15k for two birds in the bush. It might make sense for OP to hold on to the car until the battery is replaced under warranty.
 
SageBrush said:
The interesting gotcha for this car is that the buyer has to manage with 9 bar range. The anticipated future improvement in range does not help today or the upcoming winter. And prospective buyers should understand that a replacement battery under warranty will continue the original warranty -- no resetting of the clock.

Remember that saying that a bird in hand is worth two in bush ? This offer feels like the opposite: $15k for two birds in the bush.

Ohh brother.. this 9 bar leaf has the equivalent range of a 12bar 24Kwh leaf. there's hundreds of thousand of 24kwh leaf owners stranded roadside. You might be 1 of them. Obviously this won't work for someone needing full 30kwh battery immediately. Like I said, this won't work for you.. not at your wishful price point.
 
SageBrush said:
PerformanceMotors said:
this 9 bar leaf has the equivalent range of a 12bar 24Kwh leaf.
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Not even close.
The OP has a LeafSpy screen showing 53 Ahr of capacity.

Can any members with a 12bar 24kwh battery leaf post their leaf spy screen shot so I can quiet this genius? Remember SOH can be at 85% and still have 12 bars. Max ahr for 24kwh battery is 63Ahr. 0.85 * 63ah = 53Ahr.
 
PerformanceMotors said:
SageBrush said:
PerformanceMotors said:
this 9 bar leaf has the equivalent range of a 12bar 24Kwh leaf.
.
Not even close.
The OP has a LeafSpy screen showing 53 Ahr of capacity.

Can any members with a 12bar 24kwh battery leaf post their leaf spy screen shot so I can quiet this genius? Remember SOH can be at 85% and still have 12 bars. Max ahr for 24kwh battery is 63Ahr. 0.85 * 63ah = 53Ahr.
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Genius is not required -- a little googling will do just fine
http://www.casteyanqui.com/ev/barloss3/index.html

http://www.casteyanqui.com/ev/barloss3/bar1loss.jpg

My 24 kWh LEAF has 11 bars. The 12th bar dropped at ~ 55 Ahr
 
SageBrush said:
PerformanceMotors said:
SageBrush said:
.
Not even close.
The OP has a LeafSpy screen showing 53 Ahr of capacity.

Can any members with a 12bar 24kwh battery leaf post their leaf spy screen shot so I can quiet this genius? Remember SOH can be at 85% and still have 12 bars. Max ahr for 24kwh battery is 63Ahr. 0.85 * 63ah = 53Ahr.
.
Genius is not required -- a little googling will do just fine
http://www.casteyanqui.com/ev/barloss3/index.html

http://www.casteyanqui.com/ev/barloss3/bar1loss.jpg

My 24 kWh LEAF has 11 bars. The 12th bar dropped at ~ 55 Ahr


From your link.. you can see that there was a car that lost the 1st bar at 53ahr. Each leaf is different.. some maybe even lower than that. My statement is still valid. You are trying to prove that this is a bad buy base on whether this car's current range is equivalent range to a New 11 Bar 24Kwh battery or an old 12Bar 24kwh battery. Like I said.. none of your points shows that this is a bad buy. You're proven wrong or missed the point completely. Going by what you say.. you are have a constant problem with being stuck roadside with your leaf.

Also.. your link shows that the 4th bar should drop at SOH of 66%.,. so should be soon. Like I said.. you are welcome to make a worth while wager :). Nothing better than putting money where your mouth is.
 
PerformanceMotors said:
http://www.casteyanqui.com/ev/barloss3/bar1loss.jpg
From your link.. you can see that there was a car that lost the 1st bar at 53ahr.
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Your reading comprehension leaves a lot to be desired. I can see why you are a used car salesman.
The link shows that NO car made it to 53 Ahr with 12 bars, and the average of the dataset is ~ 55 Ahr.

The car you are trying to sell has the equivalent of ~ 10.5 bars in a 24 kWh LEAF
 


LOL.. I didn't know there were Half bars on the leaf. This from the guy that missed the point completely with no valid points to backup. I'm done with you unless you want to put a wager. Enjoy your walk home since you have to DEAL with the Range issue on your car.
 
Actually, he drives a Model 3 now, usually. There are indeed no half bars indicated on the Leaf dash display, but we do estimate partial bars based on the LeafSpy-derived capacity. It's like reading between the 1/4 increment markings on a fuel gauge.
 
SageBrush said:
PerformanceMotors said:
http://www.casteyanqui.com/ev/barloss3/bar1loss.jpg
From your link.. you can see that there was a car that lost the 1st bar at 53ahr.
.
Your reading comprehension leaves a lot to be desired. I can see why you are a used car salesman.
The link shows that NO car made it to 53 Ahr with 12 bars, and the average of the dataset is ~ 55 Ahr.

The car you are trying to sell has the equivalent of ~ 10.5 bars in a 24 kWh LEAF

Let's not insult people needlessly. His car has 53 AHr left, which, like you say, is equivalent to a 10.5 bar (11 bar) Leaf, not 12. From your link, it shows that the lowest 12 bar leaf had 53.92 AH when it lost its first bar, which typically happens at 55AH. At 53, it's below that threshold.

Since you asked, PerformanceMotors, my 12 bar Leaf has 85.54 SOH and 54.57 AHr. It's about to become an 11 bar car. I could attach a Leafspy, but my reputation is sufficient that I'm not making this up. Additionally, your 9 bar car may be lowering the regenerative braking. If this is happening, range may be further reduced.

PerformanceMotors still has a valid point. He has a car that's very likely (but not guaranteed) to give a person a replacement, brand new battery pack in a 2016 Leaf. Until that point, the car is perfectly useful for many people. That said, PerformanceMotors, your representation of the car has been very over the top, you've insulted a lot of the regulars on the forum, and they've provided you excellent feedback that your asking price is likely too high to garner much interest. None of us are potential buyers, so you don't have to convince us. All we've done is try to warn you that you're not likely to sell the car at the asking price.

I would also state that while it's highly likely that car will get a warranty replaced pack, it's not guaranteed. My Leaf's have typically lost around 2% SOH per year (far below average), likely due to how I treat the car. Others in similar situations might also not qualify.

We've provided you feedback on how you could get the most money for the car. Leftie's feedback about having a warranty replaced battery being better than the current situation is spot on. Buyers don't want a hassle, they want something that works. And while it's not that big of a hassle, it's the same reason you paint and fix up a house before you sell it.

You've categorically rejected all feedback that's come your way and rationalized your way out of it. I truly hope you sell the car for the price you want, and that the buyer is happy. But we've been clear and honest with you about the reality. Whether you listen or not is your decision.

I agree that if you want top dollar for that car, your best option is to continue to drive it until it needs a new battery, get the battery replaced, and immediately sell it with a brand new battery. Even in that situation, I still don't think you can get anywhere close to $15,500 for it. Here's a comparable, 12 bar 2016 SV for $13k from a dealer: https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/780523936/overview/
 
Your link sent me to a 16 Leaf S with 33,900 miles for $10,000. It's interesting that almost every used Leaf I see listed at a dealer shows a photo of the gauges with battery health of 12 bars. At least the op in this thread is being honest about the battery health. It is also common to see something like "Brand New Battery!" in the title of the add. But then when you ask them it turns out to be the 12v battery that was replaced. Very misleading. It should be illegal for the other unscrupulous dealers to reset the BMS. But most of them are doing it. This is the same as turning back the odometer on a gas car.
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https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/780523936/overview/
.
 
It's interesting that almost every used Leaf I see listed at a dealer shows a photo of the gauges with battery health of 12 bars.

It's possible that many more resets are being done. It's also possible that this is the result of two things: most 2016-2017 Leafs that get the 30kwh BMS update show 12 bars afterwards. And they may have wised up and are only showing dash photos of those cars that actually have 12 bars...
 
sendler2112 said:
Your link sent me to a 16 Leaf S with 33,900 miles for $10,000.
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/780523936/overview/
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THAT is a deal worth checking out. First sale was 6/2016 so the battery warranty extends out to 6/2024 IIRC that this model has the 8yr/100k warranty. Fair chance that the car would work out to $1,000 a year over its remaining useful life. I'm presuming that the battery gets replaced in 2-4 years.
 
SageBrush said:
Lothsahn said:
Let's not insult people needlessly.
.
Like this ?
Can any members with a 12bar 24kwh battery leaf post their Leaf Spy screen shot so I can quiet this genius?

Yes, my statement was to everyone in the conversation, and not solely directed at you.


sendler2112 said:
Your link sent me to a 16 Leaf S with 33,900 miles for $10,000. It's interesting that almost every used Leaf I see listed at a dealer shows a photo of the gauges with battery health of 12 bars. At least the op in this thread is being honest about the battery health. It is also common to see something like "Brand New Battery!" in the title of the add. But then when you ask them it turns out to be the 12v battery that was replaced. Very misleading. It should be illegal for the other unscrupulous dealers to reset the BMS. But most of them are doing it. This is the same as turning back the odometer on a gas car.
.
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/780523936/overview/
.

My bad. Looked at a few cars, and copy-pasted the wrong one. Here's the one I meant to post:
https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/788510772/overview/
 
Maybe I was a little defensive in my response. I don’t think I was offensive to any constructive feedback. But to throw out a low ball price without hard data is insulting. I do have facts and experience to back my claims. The selling point is valid on this car, and that is being missed. I posted this car here because it is unique which I thought leaf enthusiasts could see and appreciate the value added.

Sagebrush, maybe it’s more accurate for me to say that this 9bar leaf has the equivalent range of an 11/12 bar 24kwh leaf. My commute is 70miles on Hwy 280 which is hilly. Roundtrip, I still have 15 to 20% left going 70mph. Performance wise very similar to 2013 and 2014 12 bars I have driven.. could it be slightly less.. sure.. But the, point I am making is that at 53ahr, it’s plenty useable by most leaf drivers. At 53ahrs on this car, it has more capacity then most 24kwh cars on the road today. But no one is buying this for 53ahr. Could I have responded differently to your response.. yes.. that is my bad.

As far as risk in not turning 8 bars… I would say that is extremely low to impossible. Turning 8 bars, extremely high. At current SOH of 66%, it is basically an 8.25Bar (or less) leaf as you put it. The chance of turning 8.0 with normal driving is pretty much guaranteed. With the knowledgeable user, they can track the degradation with leaf spy and adjust with driving style and quick charges to guarantee this. With about 18months, I don’t know how this could not turn 8 bars with the knowledgeable user (which would be the only user to buy this).

In terms if price.. there are 2016 leaf SV’s from $12000 to $16000. I think the value add makes this worth more than the average leaf. Color and HOV eligibility makes this more appealing than the black SV mentioned. To the right buyer looking for a New battery on a 5 year old leaf, this could be worth more than my asking. To some, not willing to take the risk, less. 15500 is my asking. To the right buyer that sees the value add.. feel free to make a reasonable offer that would make us both happy. In the mean time, I’ll continue to drive the car to help guarantee the battery replacement. I will leave it at that. 😊
 
PerformanceMotors said:
In terms if price.. there are 2016 leaf SV’s from $12000 to $16000.
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The LEAF mentioned a few posts ago is a blue 'S' Model being offered for $10k.
I don't recall what SV gets a customer compared to an 'S' model. Prospective customers should find out and decide if it is worth a ~ $5k premium.

I do not agree at all with the pitch that an end-of-life battery is worth more than a battery with more life in it. I understand the notion that the chances of gaining a battery replacement via warranty are increased but that argument was a lot more persuasive in the 24 kWh generation. Eight years is a long time.

A trade-off is being offered here: increased chance of getting a battery replacement under warranty Vs an alternative LEAF with more functionality now and the potential for a longer useful life. I'll also add my opinion that Nissan suffers from battery production QC and it is a crapshoot whether one gets a long(er) or shorter lasting battery, all else being equal. A used 2016 LEAF that still has 11.25+ of new range won the battery lottery. OP's car did not, and any future replacement battery is a gamble.

I don't find the trade-off worth extra money ... at all. In fact I think the car should be discounted.
 
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