Battery Upgrades are very possible

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I am not an attorney, but it seems to me that licensing your technology to an independent US company would insulate your company from any installation liabilities that might arise in the US. You would still have product liability - the product has to work as advertised and any product defects are on you, but you have that liability now.
 
How would I be sure of the vintage (and capacity!!) of a pack that has been separated from it's car already? Does anyone have pictures from when they dropped their 30 or 40kwh pack? or a list of the battery assembly part numbers that have been used over time? I'm concerned about telling the difference between the 13-15 24 kwh, and later 30, 40 kwh.

If I'm looking at a pack that is claimed to be from a 2018 vehicle, but no vin info available, I should be able to tell from the part number on the pack. What is a valid part number from a 2018+ 40kwh pack? Or if anyone has won the junkyard lottery, have you seen the p'n on a 62kwh pack? :eek: I don't really want to buy a 24 or 30 kWh pack by accident. :(

I found some current service part numbers online, 'Battery Assembly'
 295B0-5SA9B ( $11-12000 !!! ) this must be 30kWh? but don't find any 'replaces' part numbers

The 11-12 ones do list the superseded parts these would all be 24kWh. ($7800 !!)
295B0-3NA8B Replaces: 295B0-3NA9B Description: Battery & components, 2011-12, with cold weather pkg.
295B0-3NA7A Replaces: 295B0-3NA0A, 295B0-3NA8A, 295B0-3NA9A Description: Battery & components, 2011-12, without cold weather pkg, from 05/2011.

Reading this document about Understanding Nissan part numbers, and looking at the above numbers gives me some ideas, but nothing clear. The 6-8 digits 'part type number' could be associated with the vehicle it was first used on, and the 9-10 digits are a 'distinction' number, ie: what's different about it. So I would guess 6 digit to be >5 like 7 or 8, and maybe 9th digit >9 (like A,B,C)
 
Best way to go about this is to hook it up to CAN, 12V and IGN and read out the CAN bus. I believe there's a wolftronix box that does this already. I myself use a homemade contraption. That is, if you have physical access to the battery.

There's also a sticker on the pack that says the capacity on a number of packs but not all. There seem to be a few variants.

Optically from the outside, it's extremely hard to tell as the 30 and 40 have identical shapes. There are some tiny differences in the rear mounting bracket that you can see here:

full.png


Furthermore the 40kWh pack is exactly 303kg, whereas all other packs are less than 300kg.
 
Daklein said:
How would I be sure of the vintage (and capacity!!) of a pack that has been separated from it's car already? Does anyone have pictures from when they dropped their 30 or 40kwh pack? or a list of the battery assembly part numbers that have been used over time? I'm concerned about telling the difference between the 13-15 24 kwh, and later 30, 40 kwh.

If I'm looking at a pack that is claimed to be from a 2018 vehicle, but no vin info available, I should be able to tell from the part number on the pack. What is a valid part number from a 2018+ 40kwh pack? Or if anyone has won the junkyard lottery, have you seen the p'n on a 62kwh pack? :eek: I don't really want to buy a 24 or 30 kWh pack by accident. :(

I found some current service part numbers online, 'Battery Assembly'
 295B0-5SA9B ( $11-12000 !!! ) this must be 30kWh? but don't find any 'replaces' part numbers

The 11-12 ones do list the superseded parts these would all be 24kWh. ($7800 !!)
295B0-3NA8B Replaces: 295B0-3NA9B Description: Battery & components, 2011-12, with cold weather pkg.
295B0-3NA7A Replaces: 295B0-3NA0A, 295B0-3NA8A, 295B0-3NA9A Description: Battery & components, 2011-12, without cold weather pkg, from 05/2011.

Reading this document about Understanding Nissan part numbers, and looking at the above numbers gives me some ideas, but nothing clear. The 6-8 digits 'part type number' could be associated with the vehicle it was first used on, and the 9-10 digits are a 'distinction' number, ie: what's different about it. So I would guess 6 digit to be >5 like 7 or 8, and maybe 9th digit >9 (like A,B,C)

This is why I think I am just going to buy a whole wrecked totaled out leaf that still turns on.
 
mux said:
Just so you're not just hearing it second hand: yes, we have 10 cars driving around with extender packs already and one 'ultra-leaf', i.e. the 40kWh+extender+3ph charging (all the upgrades we're offering right now). We're installing about one more car per week now and ramping up to full production soon (tm). Over the past few months we've been ironing out lots of bugs and we are pretty confident in the product by now. All that's left is type approval and documentation before we can call it final.

It's going to take a while before we can offer this in the US and Canada. Our insurance expressly excludes US/CA because of liability concerns, so we'd have to offer it uninsured as a DIY at-your-own-risk kit, but even then it might be iffy. Best is probably to find a full producer, installer that licenses our tech or something like that.

I'd be happy to purchase a step by step instructions on how to build and install myself a system to gain 40-60kKVH for my 2013 Leaf (USA).
David
 
Like Mux said, there are stickers on every battery with the capacity on it. This is what a 40kWh sticker looks like

bME9XKX.jpg


If someone is looking to buy a battery from a scrapper, this is a very useful gadget to have with you, so you can check the health of the battery
https://github.com/dalathegreat/Nissan-Leaf-Battery-to-OBD2

Contraption in action
XIwWpCd.jpg
 
mux said:
It's going to take a while before we can offer this in the US and Canada. Our insurance expressly excludes US/CA because of liability concerns, so we'd have to offer it uninsured as a DIY at-your-own-risk kit

That would work for me.
 
62 kWh Plus packs are about 5mm taller than the 24/30/40 kWh packs. There's likely no easy way to swap a Nissan 62 kWh into one of the older cars.
 
There is approx. 2.5-6cm of room between the top of the battery pack and the car. On the 2011, that space is partially taken up by the cable between charger and JB, coolant pipes to the OBC and the brake lines. On all other Leafs all that needs to fit through that space is the brake lines, which are tiny (like, 7mm OD).

The 62kWh will fit no problems at all. There's oodles of space for it. And I betcha it's going to work first time with my battery swap-programmed CAN bridge. Which is bad news, because if it actually does that will only inflate my ego that much more. So hopefully it'll actually take me weeks to figure it out :p
 
mux said:
There is approx. 2.5-6cm of room between the top of the battery pack and the car. On the 2011, that space is partially taken up by the cable between charger and JB, coolant pipes to the OBC and the brake lines. On all other Leafs all that needs to fit through that space is the brake lines, which are tiny (like, 7mm OD).

The 62kWh will fit no problems at all. There's oodles of space for it. And I betcha it's going to work first time with my battery swap-programmed CAN bridge. Which is bad news, because if it actually does that will only inflate my ego that much more. So hopefully it'll actually take me weeks to figure it out :p

My preference would be damage to your ego vs weeks of your time. I want you to be successful as quickly as possible. We're all rooting for you, mux.
 
I can fit my hand between the battery and the floor of the car so I figure worse case scenario I have to modify a bracket.

I plan to buy a whole wrecked newer leaf for when I do a battery upgrade.
That takes care of getting plugs that fit the newer generation battery.
Removing and installing a 300kg batt shouldn't be a problem for me.
 
Lothsahn said:
mux said:
There is approx. 2.5-6cm of room between the top of the battery pack and the car. On the 2011, that space is partially taken up by the cable between charger and JB, coolant pipes to the OBC and the brake lines. On all other Leafs all that needs to fit through that space is the brake lines, which are tiny (like, 7mm OD).

The 62kWh will fit no problems at all. There's oodles of space for it. And I betcha it's going to work first time with my battery swap-programmed CAN bridge. Which is bad news, because if it actually does that will only inflate my ego that much more. So hopefully it'll actually take me weeks to figure it out :p

Is that true too for the 2013 Leaf? Plenty of room left for an installation of a 62 KWH battery? If so, suggestions on where to purchase battery, CAN bridge, Instructions for delivery in the USA?
 
Is that true too for the 2013 Leaf? Plenty of room left for an installation of a 62 KWH battery? If so, suggestions on where to purchase battery, CAN bridge, Instructions for delivery in the USA?


Did you mean for this to be from you, rather than included in the post you quoted? Just use the Quote function to reply, then make sure that your post is below the end of the quote. I can fix the above if you want.
 
mux said:
There is approx. 2.5-6cm of room between the top of the battery pack and the car. On the 2011, that space is partially taken up by the cable between charger and JB, coolant pipes to the OBC and the brake lines. On all other Leafs all that needs to fit through that space is the brake lines, which are tiny (like, 7mm OD).

The 62kWh will fit no problems at all. There's oodles of space for it. And I betcha it's going to work first time with my battery swap-programmed CAN bridge. Which is bad news, because if it actually does that will only inflate my ego that much more. So hopefully it'll actually take me weeks to figure it out :p

Is that true too for the 2013 Leaf? Plenty of room left for an installation of a 62 KWH battery? If so, suggestions on where to purchase battery, CAN bridge, Instructions for delivery in the USA?
 
AdventureMuffin said:
Suggestions on where to purchase battery.

I just got back from a little trip yesterday and today, and I brought home a 62 kWh pack!! I found a salvage yard on car-part.com showing they had an 18 and 19 pack, but wasn't clear what they were. They sent me pictures of the labels once they had them at their yard. One was a 40 and the other a 62. :D I said I wanted the blue dot one, paid them and left to go get it.

Pictures here, including Leafspy screenshots: https://photos.app.goo.gl/cdNQUvgKKQvGX3wG8

serial #000015 62 has a broken HV connector, should be no big deal to replace if you have another connector assembly, have to open it up to replace it. But no dents on the cover. Leaf spy looks good? It had chalky white overspray or paint on the top of it. Maybe just dust or dirt, but maybe overspray from marking structural parts underneath a car for crash testing? Maybe the HV connector broke from the main cable being pushed rearward in a crash test? Or easily just broken during disassembly.

#000010 62 has some bigger dents on the top, must have touched the cells, should open it to check it. Looked like it might been tipped over on the ground? Leaf spy looks funny? Every other cell is hi lo hi lo, only 10-15mv, but why? Maybe some special testing. I can't think why it would look that way.

Any of these probably should be opened to make sure the dents are just superficial. Mine (serial # 000006 ) has some probably superficial dents on the top cover, I may open it to check, I'm not sure. And Leafspy looks similar to #015

The 62 packs report approximately 171 ahrs!! 97soh!! My pretty good 24 pack has only 62 ahrs!

The 40 looks like it had some other testing done on it. It has a hole from a pressure relief valve that got knocked off on the left side top cover. The other side still has a relief valve. It has some good dents on it too. The controls connector looks like the earlier 11-12 connector, but has the PTC heater plug like 13+. I didn't know the pinout for the 11-12 connector, so I didn't plug in to it, sorry. I'm not sure what sort of testing would need to have pressure relief on the case. I'd keep that in mind.

AdventureMuffin said:
Is that true too for the 2013 Leaf? Plenty of room left for an installation of a 62 KWH battery?

The 62 packs are a bit taller, and there could be some mechanical work to fit it. The rear side mounts are higher, vs. the 24/30/40 pack side mount tabs are all the same height I think. The Plus pack looks like it goes lower in the car, I see the front two mounts look different also. The front tabs are up a little higher like the rear side ones. I think my 24 front mount tabs are more flush with the bottom of the pack. It looks like the ground clearance is lower on the plus model, comparing pictures of 2018, vs. 2019 plus. The plus model you can see battery pack covers hanging below the rocker panel. It may require spacers and longer bolts on the first & second side mounts, to get all the mounts on the same plane.

I'll measure it up and figure out more when I unload the new one soon, and look again under my car and measure there. I hope it will fit as is, like the 40's fit in mux's gen 1 projects. It should fit, unless the Plus model underfloor structure is different? If not, I'll be making it fit somehow, modify either the car or the pack.
 
Considering he's got a 62 pack now, I'll be working with Daklein to figure out the 62kWh battery swap, until we get a hold of one of those packs ourselves. The scrapyard doesn't do international shipping themselves, and it's basically impossible to figure out how to ship these packs at reasonable cost without somebody on the spot doing most of the heavy lifting, so I have little hope we'll get the other 62 pack that's sitting there (dented... quite badly...)

Actual development of conversion kits for anyone to use is going to be something we might start in Q1 2020, but no promises. To be clear, this is going to happen, if you find a pack and you know you want to do this upgrade, by all means buy one, but it may take half a year until you have the CAN bridge and safe, well-tested firmware. Even then, this will all be incredibly at-your-own-risk stuff because we have no ability to do any checking if everything's properly installed, etc. and we do not have any insurance abroad. Just to get all of this out of the way.
 
mux said:
Considering he's got a 62 pack now, I'll be working with Daklein to figure out the 62kWh battery swap, until we get a hold of one of those packs ourselves. The scrapyard doesn't do international shipping themselves, and it's basically impossible to figure out how to ship these packs at reasonable cost without somebody on the spot doing most of the heavy lifting, so I have little hope we'll get the other 62 pack that's sitting there (dented... quite badly...)

Actual development of conversion kits for anyone to use is going to be something we might start in Q1 2020, but no promises. To be clear, this is going to happen, if you find a pack and you know you want to do this upgrade, by all means buy one, but it may take half a year until you have the CAN bridge and safe, well-tested firmware. Even then, this will all be incredibly at-your-own-risk stuff because we have no ability to do any checking if everything's properly installed, etc. and we do not have any insurance abroad. Just to get all of this out of the way.

I would like to do a pack swap fall 2020 at the earliest. Buying a crashed leaf from up to 800km away and towing it home is not really a problem to me.
Don't know if I will go with a 40kwh car or 62kwh yet.
 
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