2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses

amissionleaf said:

goldbrick said:

amissionleaf said:

my 2017 leaf sv just lost its first bar yesterday at 28100 miles

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yikes. do you live in a hot climate?

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not really. in CA bay area

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That covers a wide range of micro-climates, from cool, foggy coast e.g. Pacifica to hot inland/south bay e.g. Livermore/Morgan Hill. Can you be a bit more specific?

GRA said:

amissionleaf said:

goldbrick said:

yikes. do you live in a hot climate?

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not really. in CA bay area

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That covers a wide range of micro-climates, from cool, foggy coast e.g. Pacifica to hot inland/south bay e.g. Livermore/Morgan Hill. Can you be a bit more specific?

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daytime in mountain view, nighttime in milpitas/fremont

amissionleaf said:

GRA said:

amissionleaf said:

not really. in CA bay area

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That covers a wide range of micro-climates, from cool, foggy coast e.g. Pacifica to hot inland/south bay e.g. Livermore/Morgan Hill. Can you be a bit more specific?

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daytime in mountain view, nighttime in milpitas/fremont

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So, not Antioch or Livermore, but towards the hotter end of bay area climates. Thanks.

This is question to 30 kWh Leaf battery owners using Leaf Spy Pro.

What cell voltage levels are you reading when charged to 100% and on the low end like at around 6-8% at the Very Low Battery warning if you have tested at these SOC's?

Please note estimated mileage range at 100%. Thanks.

I haven't charged to 100% in about a year and have never been below 8% but I would guestimate my GOM would say about 130 miles at 100% SOC based on what I see at 80% etc.

GaleHawkins said:

This is question to 30 kWh Leaf battery owners using Leaf Spy Pro.

What cell voltage levels are you reading when charged to 100% and on the low end like at around 6-8% at the Very Low Battery warning if you have tested at these SOC's?

Please note estimated mileage range at 100%. Thanks.

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4.10 to 4.11 at full charge 9 mv spread on the cells. 3.3 to 3.4 depending on how low I actually get. There's a knee to the curve at the bottom end and I try to stay above it. Estimated range via the Guess-O-Meter starts at 83 mi but is up to 118 mi at 95% after I come down the hill (12.9 mi). I figure 1 mi per percentage point and ignore the Guess-O-Meter. Real range is 85-90 mi. with 100% charge (322 Gids). A typical drive for me is a 56 mile round trip (28 mi one way) done between 8 AM and 11 AM including stops for errands. There's a 1900 ft elevation change each way and going uphill sucks the juice right out of the battery. I've actually had the battery down to 8-10 Gid's a couple of times as a test.

Thanks for the details. When I get a chance I will post my DC charges from last Monday and Saturday. I am interesting in understanding more about SOC and SOH and why last Monday the charger stopped at 94% of charge but yesterday both times it made it to 97% and did it in less time than on Monday. Battery temps where about the same. Monday air temps were 50F and yesterday were 39F.

After the second charge yesterday my range was a reported 68 miles but within the first mile dropped to 57 miles then back to 68 miles of range. I drove it home 50 miles and had about 20 miles showing. I have not seen any more 95 mile ranges reports to only drop 15 miles within the first 2 miles of driving.

I did see online another 2016 SL only showing 5/12 SOH bars at 21K miles that is located in CA. That would be an interesting case study I expect.

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Us...23VgJyEAEYASABEgIpufD_BwE#listing=251936701

GaleHawkins said:

Thanks for the details. When I get a chance I will post my DC charges from last Monday and Saturday. I am interesting in understanding more about SOC and SOH and why last Monday the charger stopped at 94% of charge but yesterday both times it made it to 97% and did it in less time than on Monday. Battery temps where about the same. Monday air temps were 50F and yesterday were 39F.

After the second charge yesterday my range was a reported 68 miles but within the first mile dropped to 57 miles then back to 68 miles of range. I drove it home 50 miles and had about 20 miles showing. I have not seen any more 95 mile ranges reports to only drop 15 miles within the first 2 miles of driving.

I did see online another 2016 SL only showing 5/12 SOH bars at 21K miles that is located in CA. That would be an interesting case study I expect.

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Us...23VgJyEAEYASABEgIpufD_BwE#listing=251936701

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Using the Guess-O-Meter for range estimates is useless. It's estimate is based on the last few minutes of driving only. Drive uphill, it will drop drastically, drive downhill and you get unrealistically high numbers. Even if you drive the exact same route every day, the beginning and ending values will vary. Use the % remaining gauge instead. It's much more accurate. You'll get a feel for how much range you actually have very quickly.

Dec update. 319 GID's 69.81 AH, SOH=87.83%, Hx=68.44%, 74870 total mi. 27941 mi on new battery. 18 DCFC and 512 l2 charges on the new battery. The battery is continuing to slowly degrade. Now that cooler weather is here again I expected the battery to show a slower loss. That hasn't happened. After 18 months I'm down 12.2% compared to new. It looks like I'll be down by 23-25% when the warranty expires. That's about 18 months away at the rate i'm driving. That's also about as much battery loss as I care to deal with. I'd like to wait for the Model Y or the ID4 but I don't know when they will actually be available. The Tesla Pickup has shown up and it ticks most of the boxes for me but it's actually larger than my Tundra which will make it a bitch to park and I'm concerned about range while towing. Towing a horse trailer, the Tundra gets 10-12 mpg which gives me a couple of hundred miles of range. The Model X towing gets as little as 1/3 of it's rated mileage. If the pickup does as badly then I'd need the 500 mile $70K version. I'm not willing to spend that much. I could go for the $50K 300 mile version if if I could squeeze 175 miles out of it while towing. Otherwise it's back to a sedan and keep the gasser for towing and hauling.

Hello All, Long time, no visits from me. Things seem quiet here.

I dropped 2nd bar today. 2016 30kwh battery. Had the "software fix" done about a year ago. It brought my SOH back up to around 85%, but now I'm back to 78% SOH per LeafSpy Pro.

Car was manufactured in May 2016, put into service Sept 2016. 39,101 miles. 17QC, 1643 L1/L2 See's heat in KC summers, cold in winter. Garaged at home and covered at work though, so heat bars seldom exceed 6 total.

I've got a Juicenet EVSA and tend to charge only to 80% in the warm months. Cooler weather I am finding that 80% cramps my style more and more, so I try and charge to 100% in the AM. Nice to start with warmer bats too.

I've been trying to find some sort of 30kwh decay model or spreadsheet. Would like to know what my chances are to get a new batter in the next 4.5 years. Need to drop three more bars, right? Seems unlikely......

Those 30kwh packs seem to be all over the map in how fast they degrade. I'm not sure that a single model would work for them.

cdherman said:

Hello All, Long time, no visits from me. Things seem quiet here.

I dropped 2nd bar today. 2016 30kwh battery. Had the "software fix" done about a year ago. It brought my SOH back up to around 85%, but now I'm back to 78% SOH per LeafSpy Pro.

Car was manufactured in May 2016, put into service Sept 2016. 39,101 miles. 17QC, 1643 L1/L2 See's heat in KC summers, cold in winter. Garaged at home and covered at work though, so heat bars seldom exceed 6 total.

I've got a Juicenet EVSA and tend to charge only to 80% in the warm months. Cooler weather I am finding that 80% cramps my style more and more, so I try and charge to 100% in the AM. Nice to start with warmer bats too.

I've been trying to find some sort of 30kwh decay model or spreadsheet. Would like to know what my chances are to get a new batter in the next 4.5 years. Need to drop three more bars, right? Seems unlikely......

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Not as unlikely as you would think. At 78%, you just dropped the second bar. You need to lose a total of 4 bars. You have already lost 22% and need to lose another 14% to qualify for a new battery. You have had the car just over 3 years so I would expect you to have to replace the battery in a couple more years. Get your annual battery checks done so Nissan can't complain.

cdherman said:

Hello All, Long time, no visits from me. Things seem quiet here.

I dropped 2nd bar today. 2016 30kwh battery. Had the "software fix" done about a year ago. It brought my SOH back up to around 85%, but now I'm back to 78% SOH per LeafSpy Pro.

Car was manufactured in May 2016, put into service Sept 2016. 39,101 miles. 17QC, 1643 L1/L2 See's heat in KC summers, cold in winter. Garaged at home and covered at work though, so heat bars seldom exceed 6 total.

I've got a Juicenet EVSA and tend to charge only to 80% in the warm months. Cooler weather I am finding that 80% cramps my style more and more, so I try and charge to 100% in the AM. Nice to start with warmer bats too.

I've been trying to find some sort of 30kwh decay model or spreadsheet. Would like to know what my chances are to get a new batter in the next 4.5 years. Need to drop three more bars, right? Seems unlikely......

Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing these details. The 2016 SL that we bought a couple months ago shows 65% of new battery health per LSP and 9/12 bars at 22K miles with 1 DC and 740 L1/L2 charges. I can pamper a range of 70 miles out of it by driving 45 MPH. At 70 MPH it is good for 45 miles from 100% SOC down to 8-10%.

After I get a better handle on the factors other find that apply to the 30 kWh battery I plan to get the software update ran if it has not been done since it seemed to have come off a 3 year lease. There is one report that the battery was tested early in 2016 after range complaints and the battery record stated no battery health issues. I have not talked with Nissan National yet for its history. Some dealerships have given up their Leaf certifications due to cost I guess. It seems the Leaf is a net loser for some dealerships.

I also have a manufactured in May, service date in September 2016 SL. 7 QC and about 1600 L1/L2 (lots of use of timers). The car spent its first two years near Seattle and is now in Edmonton, so very little exposure to high temperatures - it spent less than 24 hours at 6 bars last summer. It was a lease return so I am pretty sure the BMS update was done, though I haven't officially verified it. Was at 31,000 km and 91.7% SOH when purchased in early January 2019. SOH has been frozen at 88.1% since October (SOH doesn't update at less than 5 temperature bars). Total kilometers was 42,000.
So far degradation is looking very linear at about 4% per year despite the near ideal temperature conditions. Extrapolating forward, I will likely lose a bar sometime next summer, and won't quite be ready to drop the 4th bar when the warranty runs out in September 2024. Really hoping that it either stabilizes or gets worse soon to avoid that worst case scenario.

Tonight after I got the horses, dogs and cats cared for I decided to see Clint Eastwood's Richard Jewell. When I left I noted the range estimated was 68 when typically at 100% it ranges from 73-94. Then looking at the dash I had missed bar 4 going bye bye.

After the holidays I will work to get concrete info from Nissan Headquarters as to its service history since it recently came off of a 3 year lease and pin down if the battery manage software has been updated or not.

Again it is a 2016 SL put in service Fall of 2016 and tonight when I realized the 4th bar had been dropped it was at 24,808 miles and about 775 L1/L2 charges and 7 DC charges. I bought it 2 months ago with 3 bars missing.

GaleHawkins said:

Tonight after I got the horses, dogs and cats cared for I decided to see Clint Eastwood's Richard Jewell. When I left I noted the range estimated was 68 when typically at 100% it ranges from 73-94. Then looking at the dash I had missed bar 4 going bye bye.

After the holidays I will work to get concrete info from Nissan Headquarters as to its service history since it recently came off of a 3 year lease and pin down if the battery manage software has been updated or not.

Again it is a 2016 SL put in service Fall of 2016 and tonight when I realized the 4th bar had been dropped it was at 24,808 miles and about 775 L1/L2 charges and 7 DC charges. I bought it 2 months ago with 3 bars missing.

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Sounds like it hasn't received the firmware update yet. No biggie though, you'll probably still qualify for the replacement pack a few years later when the fourth bar drops again.

Agreed. The BMS update does one thing very well: it restores lost bars, at least for a while.

Looks like no quick software fix for my 2016 SL. Today at the national level I was told it had the battery control module update and a bonding strap done in 2018 so that was at least a year ago. Not sure if they did the software thing due to 4 missing bars or not. What was the deal with adding the bonding strap.

Since the closest dealer is 70 miles away I am going to have to make sure the charging point is good to go so I can charge 25 miles down the road. The funny thing the Paris TN dealership had a charger two months ago and now say NO More. They did not keep up their Leaf certification. If I drove 45 I might make it but I plan to add 10 miles of range to be on the safe side.

GaleHawkins said:

What was the deal with adding the bonding strap.

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It was a recall that replaced a grounding strap on the battery enclosure, I believe. I haven't had mine done yet but it is free and apparently there were cases where the original strap would rust away leaving some part of the battery pack 'ungrounded' and causing a potential safety hazard for anyone working on the traction battery.

One would guess that the car had the BMS software update done at the same time but who knows? Anything is possible I guess but it sure sounds like you will be lucky enough to get a replacement battery in the near future.

goldbrick said:

GaleHawkins said:

What was the deal with adding the bonding strap.

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It was a recall that replaced a grounding strap on the battery enclosure, I believe. I haven't had mine done yet but it is free and apparently there were cases where the original strap would rust away leaving some part of the battery pack 'ungrounded' and causing a potential safety hazard for anyone working on the traction battery.

One would guess that the car had the BMS software update done at the same time but who knows? Anything is possible I guess but it sure sounds like you will be lucky enough to get a replacement battery in the near future.

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Thanks for that info. I have my case number from Nissan National and an area Nissan dealership to work with so they can report back their battery findings. The BMS update and grounding strap was done in 2018 per National so now I just will follow the stepping stones as they place them as time permits.