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golfcart said:
lorenfb said:
golfcart said:
In addition, my friend reserved one last week, I have seen his account, it says $35000 standard range on it.
Click to expand...

And what's the quoted delivery date??? We all remember 2016/2017 where a M3 delivery was essentially "Will Advise" on the $1K deposit.
Click to expand...

Irrelevant to the discussion of whether or not you can buy one still.
Click to expand...

You're naive, of course it's relevant! Any company can take an order, as Tesla did in 2016, but the key is a committed delivery date.
Most companies, e.g. Amazon, Best Buy, & Apple, provide delivery dates when an order is placed. An order only has validity when
a product delivery acknowledgement has a committed date. Otherwise it's basically a "Will Advise" order based on the whims of the
the product sales/marketing department, i.e. given the profitability of the order. Since Elon has stated that the cost of the M3 is
basically $39K, Tesla's motivation to deliver M3's at breakeven or less is marginal at best! So although Tesla will accept orders for a $35K M3,
the key issue is really whether many actually get delivered, especially in 2019.
 
lorenfb said:
golfcart said:
lorenfb said:
And what's the quoted delivery date??? We all remember 2016/2017 where a M3 delivery was essentially "Will Advise" on the $1K deposit.
Click to expand...

Irrelevant to the discussion of whether or not you can buy one still.
Click to expand...

You're naive, of course it's relevant! Any company can take an order, as Tesla did in 2016, but the key is a committed delivery date.
Most companies, e.g. Amazon, Best Buy, & Apple, provide delivery dates when an order is placed. An order only has validity when
a product delivery acknowledgement has a committed date. Otherwise it's basically a "Will Advise" order based on the whims of the
the product sales/marketing department, i.e. given the profitability of the order. Since Elon has stated that the cost of the M3 is
basically $39K, Tesla's motivation to deliver M3's at breakeven or less is marginal at best! So although Tesla will accept orders for a $35K M3,
the key issue is really whether many actually get delivered, especially in 2019.
Click to expand...

Amazon, Best Buy and Apple do not make ground-breaking EVs. Say what you want about anything Tesla but you simply don't get it at any level and please stop acting like you are here to set everyone straight, you continue to post nonsense and things that are refuted repeatedly. Anyone who owns a Tesla get's it and I can assure you no one cares about your view on delivery times, bankruptcy, delivery, false tech claims or anything else except those that are misinformed of have no intention of ever buying one, like you. So please don't come to the Tesla threads to spout your anti Tesla FUD and don't act like you were looking to place an order to only suddenly try to reveal some big Tesla pricing conspiracy.
 
lorenfb said:
You're naive, of course it's relevant! Any company can take an order, as Tesla did in 2016, but the key is a committed delivery date.
Most companies, e.g. Amazon, Best Buy, & Apple, provide delivery dates when an order is placed. An order only has validity when
a product delivery acknowledgement has a committed date. Otherwise it's basically a "Will Advise" order based on the whims of the
the product sales/marketing department, i.e. given the profitability of the order. Since Elon has stated that the cost of the M3 is
basically $39K, Tesla's motivation to deliver M3's at breakeven or less is marginal at best! So although Tesla will accept orders for a $35K M3,
the key issue is really whether many actually get delivered, especially in 2019.
Click to expand...

It’s not relevant and I’m not naive I know exactly what I’m talking about. It’s a software limited SR+ why would it take any longer to deliver than other models?

If you are correct about the cost maybe they sell it at a loss so they can get you to pay later by unlocking features? Maybe they sell it at a loss so that you’ll trade it in to them later and they can resell s as an SR+? Maybe they sell it at a loss just because Elon promised one and they don’t want the bad press? It’s not my concern... what I do know is that it exists now and you can definitely buy it.
 
golfcart said:
johnlocke said:
In point of fact, neither the Model 3 standard version nor the Model 3 RWD extended range versions are available for sale anymore.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why you'd be so confident in your tone considering you are completely, and demonstrably, wrong. To use a statement like "in point of fact" is in effect to say "actually" as if you are correcting someone. When in this case you are not correcting anyone you are just spreading false information. I'll repeat...

You can go into a dealer (or call) and a sales associate will order a Standard Range model 3 for you for $35000 (at least you could a week ago when I posted originally I haven't tried today). It is not available on the online configurator but I assure you it can be purchased. It is a software limited Standard range plus with 220 miles of range, slightly slower acceleration, a couple of speakers turned off and no autopilot. It is $35000 + $1200 destination + taxes and tags. For me it would have been just under $38k out the door in Virginia. I know this because I reserved one and cancelled it. In addition, my friend reserved one last week, I have seen his account, it says $35000 standard range on it. You save $3000 by removing autopilot and the rest comes off in the standard range package.

I would expect the father of liberalism to be a little more fact based in his posts. :roll:

If you are genuinely interested in what trims are currently available this article explains it better than I’d be able to do in a forum post. It focuses on the “stealth” performance but gives an overview of all trims.

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/10/13/what-is-a-sleeper-or-stealth-tesla-model-3-performance/
Click to expand...
That's odd because when I went into a Tesla store in mid -October, I was flatly told that I could no longer order either the standard or the rear wheel drive long range versions. I was actually interested in the RWD long range. I got a quote on a Standard + that came out to $44K out the door. I went back and read the article you're referring to. It simply states that you have to call or go into a showroom. No reference to a direct factory source or attribution to an official Tesla reference.

Just for the record I am not the "father of Liberalism". Rather I am an old "hippie" of the 60's with capitalist leanings and a little Anarchy thrown in.
 
johnlocke said:
That's odd because when I went into a Tesla store in mid -October, I was flatly told that I could no longer order either the standard or the rear wheel drive long range versions. I was actually interested in the RWD long range. I got a quote on a Standard + that came out to $44K out the door. I went back and read the article you're referring to. It simply states that you have to call or go into a showroom. No reference to a direct factory source or attribution to an official Tesla reference.

Just for the record I am not the "father of Liberalism". Rather I am an old "hippie" of the 60's with capitalist leanings and a little Anarchy thrown in.
Click to expand...

Not sure what to tell you about your experience but I can vouch for the fact that I ordered one in mid November from the Richmond/Glen Allen Tesla dealer. Things didn’t work out with getting my Leaf lease transferred so I had to cancel but I assure you it was on my account as $35000 + $1200 + sales tax. I think it came out to $37891 out the door or close to that.

For the record, it was a philosophy joke and he was a classical liberal not a modern leftist.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Locke
 
This is likely the same car dealership BS that Tesla was supposed to make obsolete. The Tesla "store" wants to sell the more expensive versions, so they tell people they can't get the Base versions.

Meet the new boss: same as the old boss.
 
LeftieBiker said:
This is likely the same car dealership BS that Tesla was supposed to make obsolete. The Tesla "store" wants to sell the more expensive versions, so they tell people they can't get the Base versions.

Meet the new boss: same as the old boss.
Click to expand...
https://youtu.be/meBXuuy9xto
 
golfcart said:
johnlocke said:
<snip>

Just for the record I am not the "father of Liberalism". Rather I am an old "hippie" of the 60's with capitalist leanings and a little Anarchy thrown in.
Click to expand...

Not sure what to tell you about your experience but I can vouch for the fact that I ordered one in mid November from the Richmond/Glen Allen Tesla dealer. Things didn’t work out with getting my Leaf lease transferred so I had to cancel but I assure you it was on my account as $35000 + $1200 + sales tax. I think it came out to $37891 out the door or close to that.

For the record, it was a philosophy joke and he was a classical liberal not a modern leftist.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Locke
Click to expand...


Michael Miles: (John Cleese) And could we have the next contender, please? (a pepperpot walks out onto the set towards Michael Miles) Ha ha ha... Good evening, madam, and your name is?

Woman: (Terry Jones) Yes, yes.

Michael Miles: And what's your name?

Woman: I go to church regularly.

Michael Miles: Jolly good, I see, and which prize do you have particular eyes on this evening?

Woman: I'd like the blow on the head.

Michael Miles: The blow on the head.

Woman: Just there. (points to the back of her head)

Michael Miles: Jolly good. Well your first question for the blow on the head this evening is: What great opponent of Cartesian dualism resists the reduction of psychological phenomena to physical states?

Woman: I don't know that!

Michael Miles: Well, have a guess.

Woman: Henri Bergson.

Michael Miles: Is the correct answer!

Woman: Ooh, that was lucky. I never even heard of him.

Michael Miles: Jolly good.
 
johnlocke said:
And No, I wasn't joking about a new factory. By the way where did you get the less than 50% conversion rate for the model 3?
Click to expand...

Tesla will never tell us the conversion. I Had estimated it some time back when I was more in tune with the overall figures; numbers reserved, numbers sold, lead-times, etc. it was plain to see most people had bailed on their deposit.
 
golfcart said:
johnlocke said:
That's odd because when I went into a Tesla store in mid -October, I was flatly told that I could no longer order either the standard or the rear wheel drive long range versions. I was actually interested in the RWD long range. I got a quote on a Standard + that came out to $44K out the door. I went back and read the article you're referring to. It simply states that you have to call or go into a showroom. No reference to a direct factory source or attribution to an official Tesla reference.

Just for the record I am not the "father of Liberalism". Rather I am an old "hippie" of the 60's with capitalist leanings and a little Anarchy thrown in.
Click to expand...

Not sure what to tell you about your experience but I can vouch for the fact that I ordered one in mid November from the Richmond/Glen Allen Tesla dealer. Things didn’t work out with getting my Leaf lease transferred so I had to cancel but I assure you it was on my account as $35000 + $1200 + sales tax. I think it came out to $37891 out the door or close to that.

For the record, it was a philosophy joke and he was a classical liberal not a modern leftist.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Locke
Click to expand...
That is the first time I've heard John Locke referred to in that way. I'm aware of the connections to the Founding Fathers and the Constitution and the concept of the social contract. I've been asked about my name and possible relation all my life. In fact there is a family resemblance although I have no idea if we are related. I guess that maybe I'm not that far off philosophically either.
 
I've been doing some back of the napkin calculations and have a couple of guesses as to battery size for the Cybertruck. After looking at the calculated COD's posted on-line and Musk's comments as well as mileage figures for the X and S, I came up with a probable 400wh/mi after considering the cross-sectional area of the Cybertruck. That would make the standard battery about 100 KWH and the extended range battery about 120 KWH. The 500 mi dual pack trimotor version would have a 200 KWH battery pack. That also happens to be the announced size of the pack for the new Roadster. It might just be coincidence, but I don't think so.

I still think that towing is going to the Achilles heel of this truck and $70K to do it won't work for anybody but the biggest fanboys. On the other hand, it could have a big future as a police car. The lower maintenance costs and a bullet proof body seem to be very attractive to law enforcement types. Plus it's fast enough to use as an interceptor.
 
johnlocke said:
...I still think that towing is going to the Achilles heel of this truck and $70K to do it won't work for anybody but the biggest fanboys....
Click to expand...

What's the price of a serious truck for heavy towing?
 
Nubo said:
johnlocke said:
...I still think that towing is going to the Achilles heel of this truck and $70K to do it won't work for anybody but the biggest fanboys....
Click to expand...

What's the price of a serious truck for heavy towing?
Click to expand...
I priced a 4x4 F-150 XL Supercab with goodies at $46K including the V6, towing package, and locking 3.55 axle. 36 gal fuel tank. That is a 700 mile range. Probably about 400 miles towing a horse trailer. Yeah, you can spend $60-70K if you want but less than $50K will do the job. If you drop the supercab and go 4x2, you could get the job done for $36K. 4x2 is supposed to be better for general towing but 4x4 is better for dirt and mud.
 
johnlocke said:
Nubo said:
johnlocke said:
...I still think that towing is going to the Achilles heel of this truck and $70K to do it won't work for anybody but the biggest fanboys....
Click to expand...

What's the price of a serious truck for heavy towing?
Click to expand...
I priced a 4x4 F-150 XL Supercab with goodies at $46K including the V6, towing package, and locking 3.55 axle. 36 gal fuel tank. That is a 700 mile range. Probably about 400 miles towing a horse trailer. Yeah, you can spend $60-70K if you want but less than $50K will do the job. If you drop the supercab and go 4x2, you could get the job done for $36K. 4x2 is supposed to be better for general towing but 4x4 is better for dirt and mud.
Click to expand...

What's the towing capacity of F-150 you priced? It varies based on options. The $49K version of the CT has 10,000+ lbs of towing capacity.

Does anyone know what the + means?
 
the cybertruck really needs to be compared to an F250 in my opinion... as far as payload and towing it is far more comparable from a quick google search, even in general size the cybertruck looks more 'even' next to an f250
 
palmermd said:
nice comparison.

https://www.wheelsjoint.com/tesla-cybertruck-vs-ram-1500/
Click to expand...

Comparing a vaporware product, i.e. probably late 2021 if ever, to a present day deliverable product is a total joke!
 
webb14leafs said:
johnlocke said:
Nubo said:
What's the price of a serious truck for heavy towing?
Click to expand...
I priced a 4x4 F-150 XL Supercab with goodies at $46K including the V6, towing package, and locking 3.55 axle. 36 gal fuel tank. That is a 700 mile range. Probably about 400 miles towing a horse trailer. Yeah, you can spend $60-70K if you want but less than $50K will do the job. If you drop the supercab and go 4x2, you could get the job done for $36K. 4x2 is supposed to be better for general towing but 4x4 is better for dirt and mud.
Click to expand...

What's the towing capacity of F-150 you priced? It varies based on options. The $49K version of the CT has 10,000+ lbs of towing capacity.

Does anyone know what the + means?
Click to expand...

This guy is a truck guy doing a review of the Cybertruck and does a comparison of the F-150 specs.
In a nutshell:
Comparable Ford would be F150 XL supercab with:
Max Trailing Towing Package 10,000# would be an upgrade but the price is close

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVHjF8iwDM4

It still wouldn't include some of the other standard features though of the Cybertruck such as air suspension, lockable vault, ramp, air compressor, outlets, bigger payload, stainless steel exterior, performance, cost of ownership, etc.
So for value, he picks the Cybertruck.
 
webb14leafs said:
johnlocke said:
Nubo said:
What's the price of a serious truck for heavy towing?
Click to expand...
I priced a 4x4 F-150 XL Supercab with goodies at $46K including the V6, towing package, and locking 3.55 axle. 36 gal fuel tank. That is a 700 mile range. Probably about 400 miles towing a horse trailer. Yeah, you can spend $60-70K if you want but less than $50K will do the job. If you drop the supercab and go 4x2, you could get the job done for $36K. 4x2 is supposed to be better for general towing but 4x4 is better for dirt and mud.
Click to expand...

What's the towing capacity of F-150 you priced? It varies based on options. The $49K version of the CT has 10,000+ lbs of towing capacity.

Does anyone know what the + means?
Click to expand...
For the supercrew 4x4, 10600 lbs. Most versions when set up for towing are between 10000-11000 lbs. If you're towing that much weight, the truck should be set up for a gooseneck mount, not a trailer hitch. 7500 lbs. is likely more than you would ever tow anyway.

Here's the elephant in the room though, if you have a 200 AH battery, how long does it take to charge? If you're pulling a good size trailer and need to recharge every couple of hundred miles, how far can you get in a day? Remember that you need a safety margin to get to the next charging station because you can't call AAA if you run out on the road. With the $49K version, you'll need to recharge even sooner. Say every 125 miles to be generous. 2 hours driving and then an hour to recharge and get back on the road.

If you drop $50-$70K on a truck for towing, you must plan on towing a lot and often. If it's just local, then the Cybertruck works out just fine and all you need is the $49K version. If, however, you haul long distance every weekend to places where there aren't a lot of superchargers or are more than a couple of hundred miles away then even the $70K Cybertruck will fall short.

Musk is going to sell a ton of $49K Cybertrucks. The operating costs alone assure that. The $70K Cybertruck is a lot harder sell.
 

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