Nissan shifts EV strategy to premium vehicles, not ‘discount cars’ like Leaf

GaleHawkins said:

$30K EV's with 300 miles of range are still a few years away I expect. EV's today are net losers for their makers it seems. Tesla reports more net loss than profits over the years.

EV's are not a commodity items today. One can get the Leaf's gas sister the Versa starting around $15K.

Today EV's are not for the budget minded vehicle buyer. We're paying a premium to help finance future transportation technologies.

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I'm still trying to figure out the pricing of the leaf.
If we take 15 as the price for the sister add a 40 pack at today's prices of $156 / Kwh, I get 21240. Assuming we are talking base trim S this still gives Nissan wiggle room for add-ons for the EV side of things and profit. What does the transmission cost in an EV? What does the Leaf's motor cost? And then subtract off iCE components no longer needed, such as that ICE and transmission and oil pan and so on. I do not know what those are so I cannot finish but it would be interesting to know.

GaleHawkins said:

$30K EV's with 300 miles of range are still a few years away I expect. EV's today are net losers for their makers it seems. Tesla reports more net loss than profits over the years.

EV's are not a commodity items today. One can get the Leaf's gas sister the Versa starting around $15K.

Today EV's are not for the budget minded vehicle buyer. We're paying a premium to help finance future transportation technologies.

Click to expand...

Nissan has made money on the LEAF.

The $7500 Federal tax credit plays into all EV pricing. It is possible that the cars actually cost what we end up paying AFTER the credit and that the $7500 ends up going to Nissan. Even so, as others point out, someone has to develop and market EVs and the tax credit can be applied to that as far as I am concerned, the cost of getting EVs off the ground and into the mainstream. It DOES seem like Nissan should stand behind the LEAF, and I hope that they will....

WetEV said:

GaleHawkins said:

$30K EV's with 300 miles of range are still a few years away I expect. EV's today are net losers for their makers it seems. Tesla reports more net loss than profits over the years.

EV's are not a commodity items today. One can get the Leaf's gas sister the Versa starting around $15K.

Today EV's are not for the budget minded vehicle buyer. We're paying a premium to help finance future transportation technologies.

Click to expand...

Nissan has made money on the LEAF.

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I wish that was financially factual for Nissan, Telsa and the others. I have not read that the below case has changed that much for Nissan 5 years later.

"Using our CEO decoder-ring on Ghosn's statement to summarize:

"All-in, we lost a ton of money getting into the EV business in a big way. Not minding that cash pile spent already, the LEAF eeks out a small profit - but you just wait for the next ones this is going to payoff someday. Now stop asking me that question already" - or something like that."


Source:

https://insideevs.com/news/324017...able-80-of-its-us-sales-come-from-4-cities/

dmacarthur said:

The $7500 Federal tax credit plays into all EV pricing. It is possible that the cars actually cost what we end up paying AFTER the credit and that the $7500 ends up going to Nissan. Even so, as others point out, someone has to develop and market EVs and the tax credit can be applied to that as far as I am concerned, the cost of getting EVs off the ground and into the mainstream. It DOES seem like Nissan should stand behind the LEAF, and I hope that they will....

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Why do to think Nissan will not run with the Gen 2 Leaf for their typical 7 year run of a new design?

I think they will run with it for 7 years as you say and focus more on premium vehicles. There has been some CEO changes as well which make things a bit harder to predict.

GaleHawkins said:

Why do to think Nissan will not run with the Gen 2 Leaf for their typical 7 year run of a new design?

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The B platform LEAF will continue as a 2020 and possibly as a 2021 car much like the old Rouge (sport) SUV continued despite the new version being launched. The trim levels will probably be limited and will continue to use the well regarded 40 and 62 kWh passively managed battery. A 2020 car has been confirmed by my contacts at Nissan with minimal enhancements from the 2019 car.

In the late 3rd FY Qtr - mid 4th FY Qtr 2020 (Oct-20-March 21), a Nissan branded SUV that will be based on the new BEV platform will be launched. This platform will be the basis of all three alliance partners next generation BEVs. Somewhere in this time frame will also be the relaunch of Infiniti as Nissan's premium BEV line.

Depending on how the new BEV platform is received as an SUV will determine how long the current LEAF model will stick around. It fills the entry level niche and has enough amortized costs in it that it can continue to be profitably offered as the entry level Nissan BEV in its current passively-cooled configuration.

I can’t speak for the 40, but would not say the 62 battery is massively plagued.

DougWantsALeaf said:

I can’t speak for the 40, but would not say the 62 battery is massively plagued.

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I'd rate the 40kwh packs as "Good" - IF you don't quick charge often, and didn't get one of the early builds with a bad cell or two.

danrjones said:

GaleHawkins said:

$30K EV's with 300 miles of range are still a few years away I expect. EV's today are net losers for their makers it seems. Tesla reports more net loss than profits over the years.

EV's are not a commodity items today. One can get the Leaf's gas sister the Versa starting around $15K.

Today EV's are not for the budget minded vehicle buyer. We're paying a premium to help finance future transportation technologies.

Click to expand...

I'm still trying to figure out the pricing of the leaf.
If we take 15 as the price for the sister add a 40 pack at today's prices of $156 / Kwh, I get 21240. Assuming we are talking base trim S this still gives Nissan wiggle room for add-ons for the EV side of things and profit. What does the transmission cost in an EV? What does the Leaf's motor cost? And then subtract off iCE components no longer needed, such as that ICE and transmission and oil pan and so on. I do not know what those are so I cannot finish but it would be interesting to know.

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Today's Nissan list price from Nissan warehouse for a 40 pack is $312.50 per kWh hour so you may be correct as the net cost for production use. I was blown away when the service writer said $12,500 for the 40 if they ordered it from Nissan.

With VW being the next strongest EV player below Tesla I learned today that their EV batteries from 3rd party sources is 2x per kWh more than Tesla's cost. Tesla is really out in front at this point. They are selling the S in 2020 for the same price as they did in 2012 but features and range have zoomed up. Battery prices is the tail that wags the EV dog.

GaleHawkins said:

With VW being the next strongest EV player below Tesla

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Why VW? Not sure I'd put them there. Maybe put them at #3 or 4.

BTW, take a look at https://insideevs.com/news/396177/global-ev-sales-december-2019/.

cwerdna said:

GaleHawkins said:

With VW being the next strongest EV player below Tesla

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Why VW? Not sure I'd put them there. Maybe put them at #3 or 4.

BTW, take a look at https://insideevs.com/news/396177/global-ev-sales-december-2019/.

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That came from the VW CEO. Until recently VW had the highest market value of all car makers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4oCBDQNlpU

If these make it to my part of the USA I really would like to test drive one. Hope the price is like a Leaf and the features are like a Tesla Model 3. https://auto.hindustantimes.com/aut...ill-go-on-sale-by-2020-41591849728168.html

GaleHawkins said:

If these make it to my part of the USA I really would like to test drive one. Hope the price is like a Leaf and the features are like a Tesla Model 3. https://auto.hindustantimes.com/aut...ill-go-on-sale-by-2020-41591849728168.html

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Totally laughable, a low-end vehicle brand attempting to sell a high-end vehicle, e.g the Infiniti - a very marginal seller at best.

and to take on the likes of Tesla Model 3, features ProPilot 2.0 which would make it reasonably capable of driving itself.

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Dream On!

lorenfb said:

GaleHawkins said:

If these make it to my part of the USA I really would like to test drive one. Hope the price is like a Leaf and the features are like a Tesla Model 3. https://auto.hindustantimes.com/aut...ill-go-on-sale-by-2020-41591849728168.html

Click to expand...

Totally laughable, a low-end vehicle brand attempting to sell a high-end vehicle, e.g the Infiniti - a very marginal seller at best.

and to take on the likes of Tesla Model 3, features ProPilot 2.0 which would make it reasonably capable of driving itself.

Click to expand...

Dream On!

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I agree with your thought but the sad part is if Nissan does not have good sales with this EV they may just fade away with the ICE vehicles in the next several years or they may wind up and re badge a China made EV. I am starting to think Nissan has no Elon Musk in house these days.

GaleHawkins said:

I am starting to think Nissan has no Elon Musk in house these days.

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And are you thinking that would be a bad thing.....or a good thing?

Dooglas said:

GaleHawkins said:

I am starting to think Nissan has no Elon Musk in house these days.

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And are you thinking that would be a bad thing.....or a good thing?

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Possible a bad thing if the Nissan board objective is keep downsizing again and again.

Dooglas said:

GaleHawkins said:

I am starting to think Nissan has no Elon Musk in house these days.

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And are you thinking that would be a bad thing.....or a good thing?

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Both.
Elon correctly targeted the market of upscale buyers, where electric cars have a large advantage now. Every other car company targeted lower end or midscale buyers. Ability to see the winning design, priceless.
Elon is a stable genus. He is very good at ... what stable geniuses do. Go to a stable, you will understand.

So thoughts on wether the leaf will make an exit over the next few years?

webeleafowners said:

So thoughts on wether the leaf will make an exit over the next few years?

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I read where the Leaf plant in the UK was going back on line. One thought is that the Chinese EV's are to blow all the Leafs off of the trees so to speak. I expect like with COVID-19 no one has any settled facts over the future of Nissan.