Bouldergramp
Well-known member
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH7V2tU3iFc
Insteresting video driving EVs until they quit...a comparison
- Thread starter Bouldergramp
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DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
Niro was clear winner. It almost caught the Model 3 LR for 16K less dollars.
Leaf did ok, but not sure why it lost 4% overnight. It wasn’t “that” cold that the heater kicks on. I wonder if they didn’t leave it on the charger long enough to balance cells.
Leaf did ok, but not sure why it lost 4% overnight. It wasn’t “that” cold that the heater kicks on. I wonder if they didn’t leave it on the charger long enough to balance cells.
user 24513
Well-known member
What I thought was interesting was "actual range as percentage of advertised". Niro the clear winner, at 91 percent. Leaf was I think second at around 85%. Does make ya wonder- why are NONE of them getting what they advertise? at about 42 degrees, should not be using much heat.....
knightmb
Well-known member
That was my beef too. None of them were at 100%? The cold does not sap the charge like that in only a few hours. The extra 5% missing is more miles, plus having one follow behind another is giving the following vehicle a CD advantage to the leader. In a long rang test like this, those small bits add up to more miles. I didn't feel like science was taken to heart to at least make it a fair range test.DougWantsALeaf said:
cwerdna
Well-known member
Haven't watched the video yet but 42 F is cold and will require using the power pig heaters.dmacarthur said:
About "advertised", please see the following regarding EPA tests:
https://web.archive.org/web/20100111052810/http://www.caranddriver.com/features/09q3/the_truth_about_epa_city_highway_mpg_estimates-feature - there are a couple pages
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/how_tested.shtml - ditto
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml - click thru all the tabs
https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/pdfs/EPA%20test%20procedure%20for%20EVs-PHEVs-11-14-2017.pdf - linked to from the earlier URL
I looked at the beginning of the video and saw a curious figure of 292 miles for i-Pace. That's the WLTP rating. We don't use that here. EPA range rating is 234 miles for i-Pace: https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=41413&id=39860. I don't know any details about the WLTP test but they're clearly inflated vs. EPA range ratings. Example is https://insideevs.com/news/335878/2018-nissan-leaf-gets-range-rating-on-wltp-cycle/. '18 Leaf gets 151 miles on EPA range test vs. 168 or 177 miles combined on WLTP. At least WLTP isn't as inflated as NEDC.
Back in 2013, the '13 Leaf could achieve 84 miles on a full charge on the EPA test (https://insideevs.com/news/317213/2013-nissan-leaf-rated-at-75-miles-but-84-miles-using-the-outgoing-2012-epa-ratings-system/) but the Nissan exec at https://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=304180#p304180 (video is dead now) said 200 km (124 miles). Apparently, that was the NEDC rating. :roll:
powersurge
Well-known member
There is a problem with the science of this "experiment"...
If they "all set temperature to XXX degrees), then there is no standardization... There is no standardization of a/c on or off, level of fan, or even differences in energy use of climate controls between cars.
It SHOULD have been.. No heat., a/c, radio or other accessories (maybe even no lights)..
It really doesn't matter because we cannot make shake or shack of all this information because they are all types of different vehicles. You don't run a hummer, an explorer, a Honda fit and a Prius and try to compare how far they go...
If they "all set temperature to XXX degrees), then there is no standardization... There is no standardization of a/c on or off, level of fan, or even differences in energy use of climate controls between cars.
It SHOULD have been.. No heat., a/c, radio or other accessories (maybe even no lights)..
It really doesn't matter because we cannot make shake or shack of all this information because they are all types of different vehicles. You don't run a hummer, an explorer, a Honda fit and a Prius and try to compare how far they go...
Bouldergramp
Well-known member
It sounds fair to me:
"The test was performed by utilizing a system that included driving at the same speed on the same stretch of road at the same time. Each vehicle was put into its most energy-efficient setting and was operating with its air conditioning at 68 degrees Fahrenheit. The consistency showed there was no bias in the actual execution of the assessment, making it completely fair for all vehicles that were chosen to partake in the test.
Each vehicle was charged the night before the test. At the time the testing began, each vehicle held at least a 95% charge. While other variables like external temperature may have affected the performance of each vehicle, it was still an even playing field. By the end, Carwow would be able to tell electric car enthusiasts what vehicle was best suited for long-range driving."
"The test was performed by utilizing a system that included driving at the same speed on the same stretch of road at the same time. Each vehicle was put into its most energy-efficient setting and was operating with its air conditioning at 68 degrees Fahrenheit. The consistency showed there was no bias in the actual execution of the assessment, making it completely fair for all vehicles that were chosen to partake in the test.
Each vehicle was charged the night before the test. At the time the testing began, each vehicle held at least a 95% charge. While other variables like external temperature may have affected the performance of each vehicle, it was still an even playing field. By the end, Carwow would be able to tell electric car enthusiasts what vehicle was best suited for long-range driving."
DougWantsALeaf
Well-known member
I agree it was a pretty solid test. I am sure driving styles as well as how the final 10-20 miles were driven (Leaf went through a heavy stop start cycle where Tesla rolled around in circles as an example), likely also could have impacted a few overall miles.
My assessment is that the Niro won on distance vs. battery and distance vs. cost. It was only a hair off the distance overall.
I would have liked to see the Leaf do another 10 miles, but 208 at 42F in SL configuration with the heat on was only 7 miles off of the EPA.
That said, Niro exceeded EPA by almost 20 miles...amazing.
The curious one was the Tesla, which came up 50 miles short of EPA in this set up. That's not a trivial difference. I would have been very curious to see how the SR+ would have done on the same test cycle.
My assessment is that the Niro won on distance vs. battery and distance vs. cost. It was only a hair off the distance overall.
I would have liked to see the Leaf do another 10 miles, but 208 at 42F in SL configuration with the heat on was only 7 miles off of the EPA.
That said, Niro exceeded EPA by almost 20 miles...amazing.
The curious one was the Tesla, which came up 50 miles short of EPA in this set up. That's not a trivial difference. I would have been very curious to see how the SR+ would have done on the same test cycle.
martyscholes
Well-known member
I am testing small road-trips for a slow buildup to a longer road trip. On the return home, I ran out of juice. I managed to get five additional miles after the battery showed 0% charge in a 2019 SL. I thought I was going to need to abandon the car before I made it to a charger. While I made it, the experience caused some anxiety. The video I made probably is not helping to convert people to EV. How much reserve is really there?
Astros
Well-known member
There is quite a lot of battery reserve with the Leaf, and that is one of it's biggest flaws in my opinion. I believe the reserve is 10% in all versions of the Leaf. The problem is that at 100% charge the range meter displays the range including the reserve (in both miles and percent), but once you go below ~65% it progressively subtracts the reserve. This gives the impression of using far more of the battery than you really are, and exacerbates range anxiety.martyscholes said:
