2019 Leaf S Plus Heater

I have a Question
I have a Leaf S Plus With the radiant heater and winter package heated seats and steering wheel
Why does the mileage Drop from 225 Charged To 190 Miles Thats 35 miles When The Heater is Turned On?
I Had A 2015 Leaf S and the Mileage Same Heater Radiant on that and Dropped 15 Miles when Turned On
I figured they would have done something about that on the plus models
we are having cold weather in the Northeast 25 Degrees during the day 5 degrees at night
Is my question Reasonable i lived with the 2015 for 4 years with Heated seats on and Heated wheel on
What would i expect with a hybrid heater in an SV plus?

The resistance heaters (aka "PTC" heater) in EVs do draw huge amounts of power, I'm afraid. The range hit is larger in the ePlus S because the overall range is larger, I guess...

Yes, since the range is much higher with the 62 kWh battery, the estimated range change when climate control is turned on or off is much higher than with the 24 kWh battery in the 2015. I had to get used to seeing changes of 20 miles or more in estimated range even with the heat pump system (either cooling or heating) when traction battery is fully charged. Since the battery capacity is about 2.5 times that of the 2015, the range reduction at full charge when climate control is activated should be about 2.5 times what you saw on the 2015. I rarely saw more than 7 or 8 miles reduction for 2015 and see 20 miles or more under similar conditions for 2019.

What would expect the Hybrid Heater in an SV Plus with winter package when turned on do the the mileage?

radiotron said:

What would expect the Hybrid Heater in an SV Plus with winter package when turned on do the the mileage?

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Assuming the 2019 is the same as the 2018, I have a 2018 SV with weather package. Running the heater dips my range and lowers my efficiency a bit but not nearly as much as running the front defroster. But it also depends on the temperature. What I have noted is that is starts probably with the PTC heater for a minute to get heat into the cabin but then must switch to the heat pump. I have watched the climate control energy draw and it starts fairly high but then quickly bumps down to about the same as the A/C. But on colder mornings, below freezing, that bump down is not as much. So on a cold morning running the heater I might get 3.3 miles per kWh. This morning was not as cold so I got 4 miles per kWh. But if I use the defroster that power draw seems to stay much higher and its not rare to get around 2.5 or so miles per kWh until I turn the defroster off. That same drive without AC or Heat averages around 4.5 miles per kWh.

NOTE that my driving in the morning is very short, so naturally these numbers would bump up on a longer drive once your car was warmed and defrosted. I do not pre-heat either. No need on my short drives.

radiotron said:

What would expect the Hybrid Heater in an SV Plus with winter package when turned on do the the mileage?

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When temps are in the forties or higher, the energy used for heat will only be about what A/C "costs" in the Summer - a couple of miles of range lost. When temps drop below freezing, the energy used increases noticeably, but is still much less than what resistance-only heat uses. The energy required increases down to about 14F, at which point the heat pump, while still running down to about 7F, isn't helping enough to notice a difference in range.

One important note: when you use front Defrost, both the heat pump and the resistance heater are running at once, the heat pump for A/C and the resistance heater for heat. This negates any advantage from the heat pump.

Today
I left the House with 227 miles this morning
i drove 70 miles with heat on and defrost it was about 10 degrees
and used them sparingly on the trip
I drove a total of 70 miles round trip
when i came home i was down to 103 miles 60 percent charge left
Does that make sense? It seems like a lot of power used?

I have a new Leaf s with the temperatures ranging from 5 to 15 , I drove with a full charge 60 miles and had about 20 remaining that's 2 miles per kilowatt-hour that seems like an awfully large reduction using the heater is this normal?

One can see heater draw on the screen.
Please observe. If it shows 2kW then using the car for 1 hour equals 2kWh of battery capacity lost.
2 hours equals 4kWh of capacity lost.
Without heat pump sub-freezing temperatures usually require 2-3kW for optimal cabin temperature.
Keep the fan speed below 50% to optimize climate consumption.

Other losses in winter are mostly related to cold battery with strong accelerations.
Keep you accelerations below 40kW.

radiotron said:

Today
I left the House with 227 miles this morning
i drove 70 miles with heat on and defrost it was about 10 degrees
and used them sparingly on the trip
I drove a total of 70 miles round trip
when i came home i was down to 103 miles 60 percent charge left
Does that make sense? It seems like a lot of power used?

Click to expand...

You did not say what kind of driving you were doing - freeway speeds? Terrain?

I would say that sounds about right. As LeftieBiker said, and I've noted myself, having the defroster on uses a lot more power.
And at freeway speeds I really doubt you would get 227 miles anyway....

Dickrett said:

I have a new Leaf s with the temperatures ranging from 5 to 15 , I drove with a full charge 60 miles and had about 20 remaining that's 2 miles per kilowatt-hour that seems like an awfully large reduction using the heater is this normal?

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What model are you driving? The 40 kWh? That might be right. You were using full PTC, it was very cold, and were you driving freeway speeds?

My freeway speeds net me around 3.3 miles per kWh. For very cold and running heater / defroster, I would say multiply your normal efficiency by about 65%. So 3.3 times 0.65 = 2.1 miles per kWh.

YMMV

3.3? How fast are you driving? Are there many hills? Also, you have the smaller tires, which are 5% more efficient than the larger rims.

I have noticed a substantial drop in range when I get into the car cold (e.g. 20 F) in the morning and start a 52-mile commute in my 2019 SL. It seems to be better if I leave it plugged in while I am getting ready and run the remote cabin heater for an hour or two, then start my commute.

DougWantsALeaf said:

3.3? How fast are you driving? Are there many hills? Also, you have the smaller tires, which are 5% more efficient than the larger rims.

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72ish and yes terrain. I do not take long trips except back to the dealer, so limited data points. But my efficiency almost perfectly mirrored ABRP ( A Better Route Planner's) estimates.

But around town, which is most of the time, around 4 right now. Higher in the summer and last Fall.

The Leaf is a 2019 S Plus 3 weeks old
I was driving on Normal Roads no Highways or Turnpikes
Between 35-45 MPH depending on the speed limit
Used The Heater For Feet And Defrost Mode at 72 Degrees Low Fan Speed 2 Bars
With Steering Wheel And Seats Turned On it was very cold all day no sun a lot of wind
Typical New England January Raw Day its a good car Better than my 2015 was but
it still had a lot of wind noise from the doors rubber seals so did my older 2015
thats the only comparison between my 2015 S and My 2019 S Plus loud cabin noise
i don't listen to the radio so i notice more than other people would

The resistance heater uses a lot of power whenever it's on, although it can vary the current draw. I suggest you try partial recirculate: with the vents in your usual Feet/Defrost position, activate Recirculate. Once it's lit, press and hold the recirculate button just until it starts to flash, then release it immediately. If you are quick enough it will flash twice and go out. That gives you 70% recirculated and and 30% fresh. It saves heater power without fogging the windshield under normal conditions. If the LCD screen says "Fresh Air" then you need to try again. There is no message to indicate partial (called automatic in the manual) recirculate.

30% circulation. By default it is ON if you push AUTO.
Push AUTO and just reduce fan speed to 2.
You can try FEET mode only. More heat to feet and windscreen might be ok (fan speed at least 2) because actually
FEET mode has tiny amount of flow for defrost as well

Radiotron, your usage habits are on the good side. HVAC usage should stay within 1000W.
Be sure AC button is not activated if there is no need.

Good catch. 30% recirculated air, then, and 70% fresh.

I was the one who first posted the 'floor-only defrost' trick, so I would have mentioned it above, but 2018+ Leafs let you use recirculate in floor+defrost mode. Pre-'18 Leafs don't.

The reduction in range estimate is just a poor guess using a simple algorithm: if you turn-on the heater, the LEAF reduces estimated range by the same percent whether it is 40F outside or -10F outside; and whether you have been driving on the freeway or city streets; and whether the fan speed is set to 1 bar or 5 bars. Basically, somebody at Nissan said "if the driver turns on the heater, reduce range estimate by 15%." It's pretty meaningless because it doesn't count any factor except whether the heater is on or off.

If you're driving on the freeway at 70mph, consuming 20kw to move the car down the road, then spending 2kw heating only reduces range by 10%. On the other hand, if your entire commute is in stop-and-go traffic on city streets averaging 25mph, then you may have 50% range reduction. Similarly, if it's -10F out, then heating will consume much more power than if it's 40F out, but the range estimate won't reflect that.

If you're driving in the city, you can probably ignore the range estimate (because you'll charge at home overnight and the range doesn't matter). If you're doing a drive out of town, then you have to do your own calculation.

I agree.
It takes into account external temperature, that's all.
Running fan at 2 bars is more-or-less economical.
PTC Heater (no heat pump capability) draws 1-2kW.
That is 1-2kWh every hour of driving.
so 3 hours is 3-6kWh. Out of 40 or 60 kWh battery.