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It sounds like you either have information related to out of warranty maintenance & repair costs of Model 3, or you are making the assumption that Model S costs will translate to Model 3. I'm not saying that is or isn't the case, but just wondering how sure we are that Model 3 maintenance costs will match Model S.

It seems to me that the Model S (and X) rightly would have high repair costs due to their being significantly aluminum bodies, and being relatively low volume when it comes to things like replacement parts, etc.

Is the same true for Model 3? Intuition would seem otherwise, but wondering if you have specific information.
 
specialgreen said:
With the Model 3 selling so well, any guesses what will become of them all when the warranty expires?

Asking because I looked at a very nice 2013 S 85 130k miles, $28k. Lots of fun to drive, excellent condition. But most of my "Tesla-enabled friends" said "run away!" (actually they all said "buy new!"). It sounds like most Tesla owners are planning to sell before the warranty expires. It also sounds like the value of a Tesla crashes when you can't get a warranty, and we're already seeing that with 6-year-old cars.

To maximize the warranty period, a new Model 3 owner could opt for the 8-year extended warranty; then sell back to Tesla before 100k miles. Tesla can resell as CPO with 2-year warranty, so the car should still have decent value. But two years and 25k miles later, the car doesn't even qualify for the 3rd-party "X-care" warranty. It sounds like those 10+ year/125k+ mile Model 3s will only be purchased by drievers who can self-insure.

So long as Tesla remains a luxury brand, then it's completely OK for the car to be expensive to maintain outside of warranty (I can get a Certified 2016 Mercedes C300 for $21k... but I wouldn't want to pay to maintain it). But Tesla is talking about making "million mile batteries," which would be pointless if nobody wants to own the car after 10 years.
Click to expand...

My brother was considering a used model S, and I advised him to buy a new model 3 instead. It has nothing to do with warranty, and everything to do with value of price paid. A 5-yo model S has significantly less tech than a new model 3 SR+ for almost the same price. The warranty on the model S power train is better, but cost to repair is significantly higher for a model S versus a model 3 - due to Aluminium versus steel and number of motorized parts.

Also, the NHTSA stats show the model 3 as being safer than a model S. Energy costs for the model 3 is lower as well. So there's no reason to buy used, when new has so much more value.
 
lpickup said:
It seems to me that the Model S (and X) rightly would have high repair costs due to their being significantly aluminum bodies, and being relatively low volume when it comes to things like replacement parts, etc.
Click to expand...

Agree on M3 being higher volume, having fewer parts (moving or otherwise) and less wiring. When I read about common out-of-warranty repairs for S, I mostly see things which will happen to any EV (tires, suspension, 12v) but also MCU, water intrusion, headliner replacement, seat bucket. Model 3 has has had issues with water filling the trunk lid, but I hope that Tesla has turned the corner on most of its early quality issues.
 
Hello,
I have a 1st generation Leaf and I got the charger that EVGo gave me in the garage. I want to switch to a Model 3 and I am debating between just using the adapter that comes with the Tesla or pay electrician to switch out the charger. Any opinions on what most people do.
 
Just use the adapter. No need to to pay $500 for a wall charger that will allow you to charge in 70 minutes rather than 80.

There are only two drawbacks I can think of. First, you need to remember to take the adapter with you on trips. I bought a second one for $70 so I could keep one in the car.

Second I can't just press a button on the connector to open the charge port. I need to hit the button on the screen (or use the app)
 
I'd say it depends the amps of the EVGO EVSE. If it is 30A or 32A, just use it with the J1772 adapter. If it is only 16A, then you might consider replacing it.
 
tvo7 said:
Hello,
I have a 1st generation Leaf and I got the charger that EVGo gave me in the garage. I want to switch to a Model 3 and I am debating between just using the adapter that comes with the Tesla or pay electrician to switch out the charger. Any opinions on what most people do.
Click to expand...

fyi, since you're talking about perhaps getting a Model 3. Even though the non-Tesla charger doesn't have the pushbutton to open the charge port, all you have to do outside the car to open the port is touch it and give a little push and it will open up. You don't need to do it from the internal screen or app.
 
tvo7 said:
Hello,
I have a 1st generation Leaf and I got the charger that EVGo gave me in the garage. I want to switch to a Model 3 and I am debating between just using the adapter that comes with the Tesla or pay electrician to switch out the charger. Any opinions on what most people do.
Click to expand...

A model 3 come with a 240V EVSE, buy the adapter that fits your outlet, using the adapter is a hassle for several reasons and you should keep it in the car. Adapters are about $25 from Tesla. You have an easy fix, worst case an outlet swap.
 
EVDRIVER said:
tvo7 said:
Hello,
I have a 1st generation Leaf and I got the charger that EVGo gave me in the garage. I want to switch to a Model 3 and I am debating between just using the adapter that comes with the Tesla or pay electrician to switch out the charger. Any opinions on what most people do.
Click to expand...

A model 3 come with a 240V EVSE, buy the adapter that fits your outlet, using the adapter is a hassle for several reasons and you should keep it in the car. Adapters are about $25 from Tesla. You have an easy fix, worst case an outlet swap.
Click to expand...

Do you mean a model 3 comes with a 240v wall charger? Another issue is I currently have my connector hooked up to wall charger. I go home, unhook connector from wall, and hook to the Leaf to charge. If I just buy an adapter, leave it attached to the connector, will it still fit into the wall charger. Or do I have to take off adapter off every time to be able to hook the connector to wall charger?
 
This may sound pedantic, but I think we need to get some terminology straight, because I am confused about what you are saying.

The CHARGER is inside the car. So let's not use that term or anything outside the car.

The EVSE is the device that plugs into the wall (or is hardwired to the breaker panel) on one end, and has the charging cable and connector that you plug into your car on the other end. For a permanent installation this may be mounted on the wall, or it may be the the portable unit that came with your car. Tesla calls the wall mounted version of this a WALL CONNECTOR and the portable one that comes with the car a UMC (Universal Mobile Connector). The Tesla does NOT come with a WALL CONNECTOR (this a a $500 item, which is actually a pretty good deal - https://shop.tesla.com/product/wall-connector), but it does come with a UMC.

The J1772 ADAPTER is a small device that has a female J1772 connector on one end and a male Tesla connector on the other. You would attach this to the end of a standard EVSE connector so that you can plug it into your Tesla. This adapter comes with the car. If you want a spare, it costs $95 from Tesla (https://shop.tesla.com/product/sae-j1772-charging-adapter) although I found one online for a bit less.

The NEMA 14-50 ADAPTER is a small cord with a NEMA 14-50 plug on it that plugs into the Tesla UMC so that you can plug it into a NEMA 14-50 (240V) outlet. There are other similar adapters that can be used to plug into other 120V and 240V outlets. They used to include the NEMA 14-50 ADAPTER with the vehicle, but that is now something you need to buy extra (about $35 - https://shop.tesla.com/product/gen-2-nema-adapters)

With all that out of the way, here is where you lost me: "Another issue is I currently have my connector hooked up to wall charger." What are you calling a connector and what are you calling a wall charger? I'm assuming you just mean that you have a wall mounted EVSE that you insert the connector into and it holds it neatly in place. It's not actually "connected" in an electrical sense. It's just a plastic piece that neatly holds the connector in place. Let's call this the HOLSTER, although in your case it's built into to your EVSE. You can get these standalone for $15 or so (https://www.amazon.com/J1772-electric-holster-holder-cable/dp/B00TBW1NRM). You can get similar for the Tesla connector from Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Tesla-Motors-1022771-00-A-Cable-Organizer/dp/B01EO5BCR6/) but most people just 3D print their own, or like me, just lay the cord over the charging station. It doesn't NEED to hook to anything. It is true though that with the J1772 ADAPTER attached, it will not fit into your EVSE's holster. You will have to remove it each time, or like I do, just lay the cord over the EVSE.
 
The charger is inside the car. So let's not use that term or anything outside the car.
Click to expand...


Actually, a DC Fast Charger is a charger and is an installation outside of the car. It bypasses the onboard charger (although it does communicate with it) to charge the car's battery pack directly, with high voltage, high amperage direct current. What you wrote applies to L-1 and L-2 charging, not to DC Fast Charging.
 
LeftieBiker said:
The charger is inside the car. So let's not use that term or anything outside the car.
Click to expand...


Actually, a DC Fast Charger is a charger and is an installation outside of the car. It bypasses the onboard charger (although it does communicate with it) to charge the car's battery pack directly, with high voltage, high amperage direct current. What you wrote applies to L-1 and L-2 charging, not to DC Fast Charging.
Click to expand...

Yes, quite true, although I assumed the OP did not have a DC fast charger at home :) I suppose if I can be pedantic, then it's fair game for everyone.

By the way, I think this fact is an overlooked advantage that Tesla has over all other charging network providers.

Basically the chargers that are inside Tesla Supercharger cabinets are copies of the chargers inside their vehicles. This gives them the R&D advantage of not having to design a charger from scratch, and a manufacturing advantage in that they are already producing these things in extremely high volume. The chargers that go into commercial DC fast chargers are custom-designed relatively low volume units. Add in the fact that charging networks like ElectrifyAmerica and EVgo don't make their own equipment, but rather buy them from 3rd parties, adding an additional layer in the supply chain (that needs to make money). For the same spend, Tesla should be able to install many more Superchargers than ElectrifyAmerica can. And that's before we even consider the synergies with V3 Supercharger sites and Tesla's solar and energy storage businesses.
 
lpickup said:
LeftieBiker said:
The charger is inside the car. So let's not use that term or anything outside the car.
Click to expand...


Actually, a DC Fast Charger is a charger and is an installation outside of the car. It bypasses the onboard charger (although it does communicate with it) to charge the car's battery pack directly, with high voltage, high amperage direct current. What you wrote applies to L-1 and L-2 charging, not to DC Fast Charging.
Click to expand...

Yes, quite true, although I assumed the OP did not have a DC fast charger at home :) I suppose if I can be pedantic, then it's fair game for everyone.

By the way, I think this fact is an overlooked advantage that Tesla has over all other charging network providers.

Basically the chargers that are inside Tesla Supercharger cabinets are copies of the chargers inside their vehicles. This gives them the R&D advantage of not having to design a charger from scratch, and a manufacturing advantage in that they are already producing these things in extremely high volume. The chargers that go into commercial DC fast chargers are custom-designed relatively low volume units. Add in the fact that charging networks like ElectrifyAmerica and EVgo don't make their own equipment, but rather buy them from 3rd parties, adding an additional layer in the supply chain (that needs to make money). For the same spend, Tesla should be able to install many more Superchargers than ElectrifyAmerica can. And that's before we even consider the synergies with V3 Supercharger sites and Tesla's solar and energy storage businesses.
Click to expand...

Bingo! Not to mention stacking them makes the output scalable and they can be distributed or aggregated to work in different installation environments. The V3 stalls also have much narrower cables.
 
lpickup said:
This may sound pedantic, but I think we need to get some terminology straight, because I am confused about what you are saying.

The CHARGER is inside the car. So let's not use that term or anything outside the car.

The EVSE is the device that plugs into the wall (or is hardwired to the breaker panel) on one end, and has the charging cable and connector that you plug into your car on the other end. For a permanent installation this may be mounted on the wall, or it may be the the portable unit that came with your car. Tesla calls the wall mounted version of this a WALL CONNECTOR and the portable one that comes with the car a UMC (Universal Mobile Connector). The Tesla does NOT come with a WALL CONNECTOR (this a a $500 item, which is actually a pretty good deal - https://shop.tesla.com/product/wall-connector), but it does come with a UMC.

The J1772 ADAPTER is a small device that has a female J1772 connector on one end and a male Tesla connector on the other. You would attach this to the end of a standard EVSE connector so that you can plug it into your Tesla. This adapter comes with the car. If you want a spare, it costs $95 from Tesla (https://shop.tesla.com/product/sae-j1772-charging-adapter) although I found one online for a bit less.

The NEMA 14-50 ADAPTER is a small cord with a NEMA 14-50 plug on it that plugs into the Tesla UMC so that you can plug it into a NEMA 14-50 (240V) outlet. There are other similar adapters that can be used to plug into other 120V and 240V outlets. They used to include the NEMA 14-50 ADAPTER with the vehicle, but that is now something you need to buy extra (about $35 - https://shop.tesla.com/product/gen-2-nema-adapters)

With all that out of the way, here is where you lost me: "Another issue is I currently have my connector hooked up to wall charger." What are you calling a connector and what are you calling a wall charger? I'm assuming you just mean that you have a wall mounted EVSE that you insert the connector into and it holds it neatly in place. It's not actually "connected" in an electrical sense. It's just a plastic piece that neatly holds the connector in place. Let's call this the HOLSTER, although in your case it's built into to your EVSE. You can get these standalone for $15 or so (https://www.amazon.com/J1772-electric-holster-holder-cable/dp/B00TBW1NRM). You can get similar for the Tesla connector from Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/Tesla-Motors-1022771-00-A-Cable-Organizer/dp/B01EO5BCR6/) but most people just 3D print their own, or like me, just lay the cord over the charging station. It doesn't NEED to hook to anything. It is true though that with the J1772 ADAPTER attached, it will not fit into your EVSE's holster. You will have to remove it each time, or like I do, just lay the cord over the EVSE.
Click to expand...

Sorry for confusing you, I don't know the terminology very well. Yes, my EVGO wall mount has the holster holding the connector in place. When I get home, I take the connector out of its holster and plug connector into my LEAF. Thanks for idea. if the connector doesn't need to be in the holster when not in use, I can just lay it over the charging station with the Tesla adapter attached. I thought the the connector had to be in the holster when not in use.
 
I just stumbled across this.
specialgreen said:
To maximize the warranty period, a new Model 3 owner could opt for the 8-year extended warranty; then sell back to Tesla before 100k miles.
Click to expand...
What's "the 8-year extended warranty"? I'm not aware of any such thing being offered by Tesla on the 3. Are you talking about a 3rd-party extended warranty?

They only offer such a thing on Model S and X at the moment: https://www.tesla.com/support/extended-service-agreement.
 
cwerdna said:
I just stumbled across this.
specialgreen said:
To maximize the warranty period, a new Model 3 owner could opt for the 8-year extended warranty; then sell back to Tesla before 100k miles.
Click to expand...
What's "the 8-year extended warranty"? I'm not aware of any such thing being offered by Tesla on the 3. Are you talking about a 3rd-party extended warranty?

They only offer such a thing on Model S and X at the moment: https://www.tesla.com/support/extended-service-agreement.
Click to expand...

In the US, Tesla’s warranty is 4years/50,000miles bumper-to-bumper. The battery and drive unit are warrantied for 8 years and either 100,000 or 125,000 miles depending upon model; this is standard, no opting-in or extra payments needed. At present, there is no extended warranty in the normal sense for the Model 3. For insomniacs: https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/New_Vehicle_Limited_Warranty_North_America_en_US.pdf
 
here is something interesting from the model 3 forum:

The average Teslafi degradation is 6.7% on my ODO (10mo old car 29k km) So I’d say my examples are pretty on point.
If the average is already ~7% capacity loss, there must be alot of people above 10% loss also.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
The average Teslafi degradation is 6.7% on my ODO (10mo old car 29k km) So I’d say my examples are pretty on point.
If the average is already ~7% capacity loss, there must be alot of people above 10% loss also.
Click to expand...

I think this is a relative newbie that hasn't had enough time with the car to determine that, like the LEAF, there is an initial drop-off of capacity that flattens out significantly.

Of course I just went to check my own report...it's a bit hard to determine what my loss actually is because while my car nominally started out at 310 miles of range (and TeslaFi actually estimated 315 miles in my earliest reports), a software update was rolled out to my car that extended that range to 325 miles, resulting in a TeslaFi estimate of 318.25 miles. At 13K miles I had my then highest range estimate at 319.66, and then it fell to 297.76 miles in January of this year at about 20K miles. But then, who knows why, but my capacity has recovered, and the latest estimate at 24K miles is now 319.97. So my battery has actually GAINED capacity! Even if you go with a theoretical 325 mile range when new, that's still 1.5% capacity loss on a 2 year old car.

So these are only calculated estimates based on non-100% charges for the most part (and definitely recently where I am only charging to 60%). But even if you look at the wider distribution of Teslas out there, you see an initial drop of about 5% and then a VERY slow tail only reaching the 10% after well over 100K miles. I'd say that this person probably had their initial capacity drop and will probably hover at around 6.7-7% capacity loss for a long time to come.
 
Just as a datapoint, or many, here is my battery capacity over time from delivery just over two years ago to today. My charging has been mostly to 80% with occasional charging above that for trips. When at home, which is most of the time especially now, the car is plugged in. I use the AeroVironment EVSE I purchased when I bought my 2012 LEAF in February of that year so my max charge to the Model 3 is only 32amps even though the 3 could take up to 48 amps with the Tesla EVSE and appropriate circuitry. Still, it all works. Started with 310-mile range, now have 311-mile range. Not sure why. don’t care, loving the 3. At roughly the same mileage, the Model 3 gives me 9 times the range of my LEAF.
 

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