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paulgipe
Posts: 358
Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2014 4:23 pm
Delivery Date: 20 Oct 2014
Leaf Number: 311200
Location: Bakersfield, CA 93305
Contact: Website

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:09 pm

Why don't you go on over to the Bolt group and ask them or search the two forums on the Bolt. I don't know the answer except that they have discussed it extensively.

mychevybolt.com
chevybolt.org

Paul
Bakersfield, California
2017 Bolt LT with DCFC, leased 11/09/17
2015 Nissan S with QC, leased, returned
2013 Chevy Volt Premium, used 10/3/16, sold
L2; ClipperCreek HCS-40; Jesla; JDapter Stub
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LeftieBiker
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:16 pm

Cwerdna should also be able to answer. If he hasn't done Winter road trips, I'm sure he's read about them.
Scarlet Ember 2018 Leaf SL W/ Pro Pilot
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 3 EZIP E-bicycles.
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GetOffYourGas
Posts: 2088
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:37 pm

Unfortunately, my 2017 Bolt's battery cools off just from driving. After driving 180 miles at 20F, the car only pulls about 100A (about 35kW). After charging for 15 minutes or so, it hits more normal speeds. For a 500 mile trip at 20F, I would plan on stopping after 150 miles, and then every 100 miles thereafter, if possible. This keeps you from having to charge too far into the Bolt's (aggressive) taper. That's 4 stop. It can be done in 3, though, if you charge it nearly to full. But that will end up being slower. In the end, it really depends on where the chargers are, and not where you wish they would be.

The 2020 Bolt is said to charge "150% faster" in the cold, but we don't have a lot of empirical data as to what that means yet.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

GRA
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Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:46 pm

Car and Driver:
2020 Chevrolet Bolt EV vs. Death Valley: Range Anxiety in a Hot Seat
We drive Chevy's diminutive EV hatchback from one of the lowest towns in the Western Hemisphere to the highest peak in the lower-48 for an unorthodox range test.

268 mile round trip from Badwater (Death Valley), CA @ -266 ft. (not -279' let alone -282', that's a hike out over the salt flat) to Whitney Portal, CA (8,374') and back un-recharged in a 2020 (259 mile EPA) Bolt. Had to cruise below the speed limit (temps around 90 in DV), no A/C, windows up. Livable with fan, but not enjoyable. If anything, shows just why a QC in Lone Pine is considered so valuable by those of us who travel the area. There's a nice shot of the Whitney Cirque (R-to-L, east face of Whitney, Keeler and Day needles) from the road up to Whitney Portal. Unstated in the article is how they started with a full charge from Badwater, as Plugshare shows the nearest charging in the Furnace Creek area, about 17 miles north. I suspect a certain amount of artistic license was used.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

DaveinOlyWA
Posts: 14893
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Leaf Number: 319862
Location: Olympia, WA
Contact: Website

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:23 am

specialgreen wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:53 am
Question on road-tripping a Bolt in winter (I'm a Leaf owner but considering buying a bolt to take trips without gas).

I take a few annual trips during winter... say, about 500 miles each way (3 DCFC sessions) at about 20F ambient (-7C). I've read that the Bolt is slow to DCFC when cold. But I've also read that the Bolt will preheat the battery to 27C (80.6F) if it is plugged-in and fully charged. If you are plugged-in overnight before a winter trip, would you get full-(bolt)-speed charging at all three DCFC stops? (like 40kw below 60%SOC at Chargepoint/Greenlots and 50kw at EA?)

If you didn't plug-in overnight (such as when staying at a hotel), would only the first DCFC be slow, then subsequent DCFC sessions would be full (bolt) speed?
Dk anything about the preheating part but I have seen 8 different examples of slow charging Bolts in temps ranging up to the upper 40's. In more extreme cases with temp at 25ºF, A Bolt was charging at 22 KW @ 40% SOC and had been charging 12 mins by the time the pix was snapped. All these were EA stations.

From this, it would appear that even the heat of driving is not sufficient to heat the pack into the optimal range. To contrast; 55 KW up to ~ 55% SOC is typical during Summer.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 11,333.1 mi, 93.73% SOH
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GetOffYourGas
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Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:45 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:23 am
From this, it would appear that even the heat of driving is not sufficient to heat the pack into the optimal range.
In my experience, just driving the car in those temps actually cools the battery to lower than it was when preheated. So preheat for creature comfort, but don't expect any gain whatsoever what you stop to charge 3 hours later.
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

specialgreen
Posts: 243
Joined: Sun Mar 26, 2017 1:21 pm
Delivery Date: 26 Mar 2017
Location: Minnesota

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Thu Feb 06, 2020 11:50 am

GetOffYourGas wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:45 am
DaveinOlyWA wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:23 am
From this, it would appear that even the heat of driving is not sufficient to heat the pack into the optimal range.
In my experience, just driving the car in those temps actually cools the battery to lower than it was when preheated. So preheat for creature comfort, but don't expect any gain whatsoever what you stop to charge 3 hours later.
That's interesting. I've DCFC'd my Leaf three times within one day in winter, and each DCFC session was faster than the previous one. For the Leaf, there seems to be a "goldilocks zone" (ambient temperature somewhere below freezing) where the heating from repeated DCFC sessions is balanced by heat loss while driving to the next charger.

It sounds like the Bolt battery cools faster, so every DCFC session starts-off slowly. I wonder if you could add a driver-controlled 12v coolant heater in-between the high voltage battery coolant inlet and the existing heater? (like the heater off a 2011 Leaf; or something smaller). Or look at why the bolt battery cools-off (add a sheet of radiant barrier between the battery and rock-guard? Insulate the hoses between battery and the battery coolant heater, pump and a/c heat exchanger?).

cwerdna
Posts: 10777
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:00 am

I don't know how legit this dealer is but someone in a Bolt FB group pointed to https://www.quirkchevy.com/new-vehicles ... erby=price in MA.

They have 2020 Bolts starting at "$21,495" but actually that includes a $1500 "trade assist" discount, so you actually need to add $1500 to most/all their prices --> $22,995 to start. From a quick glance, looks like the cheapest ones with ($750) DC fast charge inlet (will show up on window sticker link if it has it) have MSRP of $38,245. Those are $23,745 (once you add back $1,500 to $22,245).

Man... these are quite cheap.

Oddly, I don't notice any Premier trims, only the lower LT trim. If you want the better stereo (part of the infotainment package) or Surround Vision (4 camera system), you need to go to the Premier trim...

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

GetOffYourGas
Posts: 2088
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:56 pm
Delivery Date: 09 Mar 2012
Location: Syracuse, NY

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:15 pm

cwerdna wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:00 am
If you want the better stereo (part of the infotainment package) or Surround Vision (4 camera system), you need to go to the Premier trim...
Interesting that these are the things you single out. Also only available on Premier trim is rear heated seats and integrated roof rails. The two reasons that I upgraded to Premier over LT. Everyone has their own priorities...
~Brian

EV Fleet:
2011 Torqeedo Travel 1003 electric outboard on a 22' sailboat
2012 Leaf SV (traded for Bolt)
2015 C-Max Energi (302A package)
2017 Bolt Premier

cwerdna
Posts: 10777
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
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Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Chevrolet Bolt

Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:30 pm

GetOffYourGas wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 2:15 pm
cwerdna wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:00 am
If you want the better stereo (part of the infotainment package) or Surround Vision (4 camera system), you need to go to the Premier trim...
Interesting that these are the things you single out. Also only available on Premier trim is rear heated seats and integrated roof rails. The two reasons that I upgraded to Premier over LT. Everyone has their own priorities...
Indeed. I couldn't care less about the roof rails. If the rear heated seats were gone, oh well. It's not common I have any rear passengers.

For me, the Surround Vision was a MUST. I LOVE Around View Monitor on my Leaf. Have been enjoying it since end of July 2013. It also helps me prevent getting curb rash on my wheels. I've had a car w/a backup camera only since Jan 06 (my former 06 Prius) but AVM is WAY better. I would have huge regrets of buying a car that can have it but passing on that option.

As for better stereo... I never heard the base stereo but I've heard many reports that it sucks. The Bose stereo as part of the infotainment package is decent for a factory stereo and is roughly comparable w/the Bose stereo in my Leaf. A decent stereo is pretty important to me. I've had lousy stereos before (on a Dodge, a Toyota and on my former 350Z (not quite as lousy as the other two)).

Unfortunately (?), IIRC (from Edmunds?), back when I got my Bolt, Bolt Premiers if they came with DC FC tended to also come with infotainment package and driver confidence II. It was rare to have a Premier with DC FC w/o the other one or two options. Not sure about 2020 Bolts now.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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