Update on Nissan LEAF Battery Replacement

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Eyeresearch said:
LeftieBiker said:
Equally likely, he will suggest that Nissan de-emphasize EVs and just sell the Leaf until it's obsolete.


"Until it's obsolete" LMAO


The 75 mile range Leaf is obsolete. The 40 and 60kwh Leafs are not obsolete: they are unsuited for some driving needs - especially the 40kwh. That car suits me fine, however. Your reality may vary.
 
GaleHawkins said:
Eyeresearch said:
My patience wore thin with excuse after excuse from Nissan and I made the jump to Tesla and glad I did. With the Nationwide Super Charging Network and the new Version 3 charging system coming online as I type my charge times will be cut in half on average down to 20 minutes on a cross country trip (250kwh speeds). Check out https://abetterrouteplanner.com/ and see what is waiting for you. And it keeps getting better and with the acquisition of Maxwell Technologies, it's only going to get better, like a Million Mile Battery Life better. No more range anxiety, a thing of the past.

The Model 3 is great and we have our name in the hat for the CyberTruck, with 0 to 60 in 2.9, sweet.



https://abetterrouteplanner.com/?plan_uuid=c835a3f2-1d5b-40dd-856d-c63b6f77be44

Sadly Nissan dealerships lack of excitement has not helped things in the USA. I was actually told at one dealership that buying back my car would be as cheap for Nissan as it was to replace the battery. I have decided the low end Tesla is a lot more car than a high end Leaf. There is no price difference. I have been driving Nissan since 1973 but I am starting to read Nissan had a lot of loss motion at the top that may lead it its death. If they could only have had a CEO with the brains and foresight of Elon Musk. Hopefully Nissan will find a way forward but your posts shows they have wasted a lot of good will of EV buyers.

Confession; I was seriously shopping (I always do) when it came time to change cars but I did not find a Tesla option anywhere near as cheap as what I paid for. My cash price was under $26,000 and was complicated by the fact I was turning in a lease that still had 16 payments left. Granted, it was an S.

So yeah, less car and STILL less money. I considered road trip worthiness and simply decided I didn't do enough road trips to justify the much higher cost especially when it covered 99.9% of my day to day. Not sure what circumstances the .1% includes but don't want to be too optimistic.

As always degradation is an issue but how far down the road will it become "the issue?" Because I didn't get this car to last 20 years. 5-7 is about all I will put up with it for. Technology in the auto world is moving faster now than at anytime in our history. I will be upgrading.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
As always degradation is an issue but how far down the road will it become "the issue?" Because I didn't get this car to last 20 years. 5-7 is about all I will put up with it for. Technology in the auto world is moving faster now than at anytime in our history. I will be upgrading.

Same here.

I am nearly certain degradation is going to be an issue where I live but for the price, and for my needs, my leaf will be fine. I'm only using in town so even with 30% degradation I will be fine, and if that happens too quickly, Nissan will have to honor its warranty. Now if I had really paid 37k for it (vice 15,500) I would probably be a lot more upset that I'm down ~9%. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to track it. Of course I'm going to track and report on it.
 
Yep, it’s an 8-15k price difference between the M3 SR+ and the Leaf Plus for similar utility. If you were a coast to coast driver the LR 3,S, or X are still likely your best bets, but cost considerably more. If you like the Bolt better, given current discounts it’s the same balance. If you can get the Niro (not by us in Chicago) I haven’t seen the discounts to be as deep, but for base version still a bit cheaper.

In retrospect I still struggle whether it would have been either better to get either the SL or just the S vs the SV with tech. It was 2K more or 4.5K less. In any case the car has done fine in all scenarios I have needed it for this far. With the EA and new state fast charger programs in the mid west providing redundancy, the super charger advantage has already been nearly evaporated.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
WetEV said:
GaleHawkins said:
What car companies have ever been proven in court to be a monopoly? I know about Standard Oil and the phone companies being declared monopolies but I can not recall any car company. It could be decades before all EV's made can't find buyers. I think it shows a lack of interest that no EV makers have come out with an EV that matches the range of what Tesla was selling as 2012 Model S.
GM limited market share to avoid anti-trust action in the 1950's and 1960's. GM had a nearly 50% market share. Antitrust case was started in the 1960's, but then Toyota and others started winning.

EV production and sales has been and is likely to roughly double every 2-3 years. So roughly 10 to 15 years out, if Tesla maintains market share of EVs, Tesla will top GM's market share.

Lack of interest can be fatal.

Won't be fatal but the lackluster reaction to market forces will be telling. Like the Prius, eventually manufacturers will come around to the fact that the technology provides something people want. For the Prius, it was high gas mileage. For EVs, it will be not going to the gas station.

I know people will argue the charging times hold us back and that would be wrong. It is the inadequate charging network holding us back. If we have a certain level of confidence we could go somewhere and plug in, it would be a completely different ballgame.

"If we have a certain level of confidence we could go somewhere and plug in, it would be a completely different ballgame."
Here you go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_o_ZQ2LQ3w
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Yep, it’s an 8-15k price difference between the M3 SR+ and the Leaf Plus for similar utility. If you were a coast to coast driver the LR 3,S, or X are still likely your best bets, but cost considerably more. If you like the Bolt better, given current discounts it’s the same balance. If you can get the Niro (not by us in Chicago) I haven’t seen the discounts to be as deep, but for base version still a bit cheaper.

In retrospect I still struggle whether it would have been either better to get either the SL or just the S vs the SV with tech. It was 2K more or 4.5K less. In any case the car has done fine in all scenarios I have needed it for this far. With the EA and new state fast charger programs in the mid west providing redundancy, the super charger advantage has already been nearly evaporated.

Agree with everything you said EXCEPT SC advantage. We are light years behind them and the gap is growing. Tesla has not rested on any laurels from day one and that will continue. The rest of us have seen public charging start slowly, spend years at one level before providing any improvement and only a DOJ settlement has changed anything. What happens when the settlement runs its course?
 
fotajoye said:
Can anyone confirm the price of a replacement 24 kW(h) pack at $5.5k and a 40 kW(h) at $9.5k?
I saw a recent post on the Facebook Leaf owners site which documented a recent replacement of a 24 kwh battery (including installation) at $7.5 k by a Nissan dealer in the Phoenix area. Four pages back on this topic there was a discussion about Nissan moving to the 40 kwh battery as a replacement for the 30 kwh Leaf battery. There seems to be some additional relevant information in the "40 kw-hr battery in 2016 leaf" discussion thread.
 
Folks as an original happy owner of a 2011 Nissan Leaf SL (now unable to drive with battery depletion so low <50%) , we are seriously looking for best options to restore our Leaf capacity back to either it's original 100% capacity or greater.

We saw rapid decline from <70% capacity to <50% capacity in the 60,000 mile mark to less than 80,000 miles. :(

It is not clear what Nissan USA is offering users as the various messaging has changed on social media and still awaiting response after numerous letters and emails to Customer Service and Customer Journey team :?:

Could someone share what are the official options from Nissan on a full new replacement battery and refurbished battery for 2011 Nissan Leafs?

Thanks so much!

Gino aka "ICE FREE"

2020-02-09

Thanks all - These videos have been encouraging for an "eventual" higher capacity solution for Gen1 and Gen2 Leaf owners;

https://youtu.be/AlxzlQgovUA

Considering sourcing a 40 kWh pack from salvage and upgrade with Evs Enhanced solution (out of New Zealand) or Fenix systems (which seems like a stretch given their battery as a service model has biz risks - where as I would be keen to source an improved "tesla-like" battery pack with greater capacity and lower rate of degradation.
 
To the best of our knowledge, your only option is a new 24kwh battery that will have the same range yours had originally, but that will degrade much more slowly. The cost is about $5500, with Nissan taking the old battery as a "core." If true, this is a fairly good deal. If you want more capacity, then you'll have to find an independent shop willing to install a used 30kwh or 40 kwh battery in your car, with an aftermarket "bridge" to let the new battery communicate with the car. If you go that route, choose the 30kwh battery very carefully, as there have been issues with those and Nissan won't honor the battery warranty for a transplanted battery!
 
Your observations on the degradation curve could be old battery tech or simply your driving needs not being a good fit for the range the car offers. I think any money spent on a 24 kwh pack is not recommended. Despite the noise that the average American only drives XX miles and the 24 kwh LEAF has double that, yada, yada; its not going to work with everyone and it looks like you are in that segment.

With 30 kwh packs getting 40 kwh upgrades, you might be lucky enough to run across someone selling theirs cheap or something along those lines. More range allows you a ton of battery management options the 24 kwh does not provide. Its pretty easy to control the charge to something less than 100% thru the timers.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Your observations on the degradation curve could be old battery tech or simply your driving needs not being a good fit for the range the car offers. I think any money spent on a 24 kwh pack is not recommended. Despite the noise that the average American only drives XX miles and the 24 kwh LEAF has double that, yada, yada; its not going to work with everyone and it looks like you are in that segment.

With 30 kwh packs getting 40 kwh upgrades, you might be lucky enough to run across someone selling theirs cheap or something along those lines. More range allows you a ton of battery management options the 24 kwh does not provide. Its pretty easy to control the charge to something less than 100% thru the timers.

Yes, it is much better to have more capacity, and the battery charge/ discharge cycles will be much lower. However, if your only choice from Nissan is a 24 KWH battery, then I would take it.... It has worked for me for the past 5+ years, and I would love to have the car an extra 8-10 years when my battery eventually does crap out....
 
LeftieBiker said:
To the best of our knowledge, your only option is a new 24kwh battery that will have the same range yours had originally, but that will degrade much more slowly. The cost is about $5500, with Nissan taking the old battery as a "core." If true, this is a fairly good deal. If you want more capacity, then you'll have to find an independent shop willing to install a used 30kwh or 40 kwh battery in your car, with an aftermarket "bridge" to let the new battery communicate with the car. If you go that route, choose the 30kwh battery very carefully, as there have been issues with those and Nissan won't honor the battery warranty for a transplanted battery!
Fenix Power might be an option. They are offering battery as a service for a monthly fee and will install a used leaf battery with a performance guarantee against loss. They are ready to begin operations. Against a 24 KWH battery for $5500 from Nissan, this might be viable as an option. The company staying in business is a crap shoot but It offers an alternative to Nissan
 
johnlocke said:
LeftieBiker said:
To the best of our knowledge, your only option is a new 24kwh battery that will have the same range yours had originally, but that will degrade much more slowly. The cost is about $5500, with Nissan taking the old battery as a "core." If true, this is a fairly good deal. If you want more capacity, then you'll have to find an independent shop willing to install a used 30kwh or 40 kwh battery in your car, with an aftermarket "bridge" to let the new battery communicate with the car. If you go that route, choose the 30kwh battery very carefully, as there have been issues with those and Nissan won't honor the battery warranty for a transplanted battery!
Fenix Power might be an option. They are offering battery as a service for a monthly fee and will install a used leaf battery with a performance guarantee against loss. They are ready to begin operations. Against a 24 KWH battery for $5500 from Nissan, this might be viable as an option. The company staying in business is a crap shoot but It offers an alternative to Nissan

I still say that this company will not even go into business due to its business model..

How can a company afford to install a new Leaf battery (that they paid for) and "hope" that you will eventually pay a monthly fee to recoup their investment. Imagine the hundreds of thousands of dollars invested in batteries that they want to put in other people's cars (customer's property) that are not paid for?

Try chasing a deadbeat customer, to legally repossess a battery out of a non-payer's property.. You can repossess a car for non-payment of the entire car, but you can't legally take the car for the battery, or steal the car's battery back while it is parked on the street.. It's like trying to repossess a bed that is not paid for by breaking into their house to get it back. It is legally impossible.
 
Oilpan4 said:
Battery swaps from newer cars that have been crashed have already made fenix obsolete.
What is the weight difference between the 24 kWh battery and the 40 kWh battery? Is Nissan using the same cells, same energy density? Are we talking about limiting the gross weight; how about suspension changes?
 
https://www.carfax.com/vehicle/1N4BZ0CP7GC302794

Example Only:

The only photo I looked at was the one showing 10 SOH bars the best I could make out, $9K or 10K I expect may buy it. I expect due to 60K miles it is on its second battery. A call the toll free national Nissan Leaf customer relations with the VIN and just ask if the BMS update has been applied to that car yet would be my ice breaking question. They can see its Nissan dealer service history with the VIN.

Short of Nissan going out of business short term I think they will honor the 8 yr/100K mile warranty. I think the 8 year part is a fed requirement. If one checked this car out in person and it looked and drove fine for say $10K and in a year or two lost 2 more bars you should be up for a 40 kWh lithium ion Leaf battery.

I did see one showing only 8 bars. Ours was showing 9 bars and lost the 4th six weeks after we got it. I wanted it because it looked like new and was an SL with all of the options sold by Nissan in 2016. The selling Nissan dealership had the 8 year warranty printed out when I arrived and clearly stated per his Leaf tech that some time in the near future I would be getting a free battery as one of his main selling points because I had raised a question about it only showing 9/12 SOH bars. At the time I did not know the BMS update had been ran already.

Some at Nissan may not be excited about 30 kWh Leafs being bought bought cheap an then getting a $12,500 plus installation retail new battery free. I would guess the battery cost is more like $150 per kWh or around $6K.

The more happy Leaf owners they can quickly gain over the 40 kWh offering the better it will help the sale of 2020+ Leafs I expect since few in the USA even seem to know Nissan makes and sells EV's period.

MY point:

Consider paying some more for a 2016-2017 Leaf that SHIPPED with the 30 kWh battery. Only the last two months of the 2016 did the S trim start shipping with the 30 kWh battery. Now it is clear Nissan knew the BMS update was not going to fix the bad battery technology so they cut the market life of the 30 kWh line short like they did in 2011-2012 battery technology issue.
 
fotajoye said:
Oilpan4 said:
Battery swaps from newer cars that have been crashed have already made fenix obsolete.
What is the weight difference between the 24 kWh battery and the 40 kWh battery? Is Nissan using the same cells, same energy density? Are we talking about limiting the gross weight; how about suspension changes?
The 2013-2019 24, 30 and 40kwh batteries are pretty much the same. Slight manufacturing and chemistry differences gave the boost in power, the module stacks are only a few mm longer in the 40kwh packs, there are only a few Kg difference between 24 and 40kwh. They bolt up the same, wire plugs are the same.
 
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