Evoforce
Well-known member
Need to drop 4 bars. The very first bar you dropped is the equivalent of dropping 2 of the subsequent bars. Although you have dropped two bars the next 2 bars will be like the time it took to drop the first.cdherman said:
2016-2017 model year 30 kWh bar losers and capacity losses
- Thread starter cwerdna
- Start date
Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
Jan update. 317 GID's 69.46 AH, SOH=87.39%, Hx=67.37%, 73508 total mi. 28579 mi on new battery. 19 DCFC and 549 l2 charges on the new battery. The battery is continuing to slowly degrade. In the cooler weather, I still lost a couple of GID's last month. I'm down about 13% from new. 19 months in, the old battery was down 17%, so the new battery is doing a bit better. The difference isn't a lot but it is enough that I expect to hit the 100K warranty limit well before the new battery would qualify for replacement. I expect to be down about 25% at 100K. At that point the car will have barely enough range to satisfy my daily use. The battery will be down 4 bars by about 125K miles. I need to start looking at my options. If Fenix ever actually produces a battery, I'll take a look at that. It's a hard sell though. VW has gotten off to bad start with ID3 software problems but I will still want to see the ID4. The ford Mustang EV just doesn't seem to excite me. A Tesla 3 or a Y would be a safe bet and the Cybertruck is an outside chance. Nothing else seems likely. The Nissan Leaf+ has enough range but I don't trust their battery technology or software expertise. GM is also someone I can't trust. Everybody else seems overpriced for what they offer. Even $50K seems like a lot to pay for a new car. If Tesla announces their "million mile" battery this spring, that would be the icing on the cake.
cwerdna
Well-known member
I'm no fan of GM but maybe we'll see good used '17 Bolt prices as they come off their 3 year leases? The first Bolt deliveries happened in mid Dec 2016 (https://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/home.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2016/dec/1213-boltev.html).johnlocke said:
The battery and much of the EV bits are warranted for 8 years/100K miles (see page 321 and 322 of https://my.chevrolet.com/content/dam/gmownercenter/gmna/dynamic/manuals/2017/Chevrolet/BOLT%20EV/Owner's%20Manual.pdf). The rest of the car will be outside the 3 year/36K basic warranty.
The range of my Bolt is a game changer vs. my '13 Leaf.
LOL. just like their "million mile" power train: https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=498198#p498198.johnlocke said:
Hey, I'm quite sure that the cumulative mileage for every Tesla ever sold will easily exceed one million miles!
cwerdna
Well-known member
Oh yes, and I should add these observations about Bolt thermal management: https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/battery-conditioning.33279/#post-512173. Unfortunately, as that guy has posted about before, it's a shame that Bolts before '19 don't have a target charge level limiter. All you get is hilltop reserve on/off.
So, if plugged in (on Bolts before '19), unless you have a timer/delayed charging enabled, it's going to charge up to full or hilltop reserve. And, from his post "Edit: also to add if you are using any type of scheduling (either in the EVSE or the car) for charging it does not count as "plugged in" when the car is not allowed to charge."
On my '19, I can set that limiter to as low as 40%.
So, if plugged in (on Bolts before '19), unless you have a timer/delayed charging enabled, it's going to charge up to full or hilltop reserve. And, from his post "Edit: also to add if you are using any type of scheduling (either in the EVSE or the car) for charging it does not count as "plugged in" when the car is not allowed to charge."
On my '19, I can set that limiter to as low as 40%.
How long do you really expect any car to last? If I get 350,000 miles out of a Tesla without have to replace the battery, that would be 20 years of operation. The older batteries in Tesla S's seem to be down about 10% at 150,000 miles and I expect that the packs in the model 3 to do a bit better. If the battery and powertrain last half as long as Tesla claims, that would still be 3 times as long as the average ICE and twice as long as the best of them. The only people who really care about the million mile figure are taxi companies and truckers. I'm just paranoid about battery life after my experience with the Leaf. I want a battery that will last the life of the car with minimal degradation.cwerdna said:
I had hoped to see off-lease model 3's by the time I had to replace the Leaf but that 's not going to happen. I still remember GM from the 80's so I just can't trust them. The Bolt might be fine but it''s still a GM product. Ford is better but not by much. Both companies have too much invested in ICE's and not a lot of enthusiasm for EV's. Volkswagen seems to have committed themselves to EV's but are having teething problems with the ID3. I still want to see the ID4 and the Vision. The Korean's look interesting but Hyundai and Kia both have had quality issues. Also low volumes of production mean that there isn't much to go on.
As far as the bolt's 100K warranty goes, the Leaf also has a 100K warranty. At 73000 miles, I'm half way through my second battery. The warranty is meaningless if the basic product is shoddy to start with. That was my mistake with the Leaf, I believed that a 100K, 8 year warranty meant that they had solved their battery issues. Silly me.
GaleHawkins
Well-known member
Since some leafs have battery issues and others don't I wonder about other technical and user issues. Before Nissan replaces a 30kWh battery do they check out the charger and motor for example?
Oils4AsphaultOnly
Well-known member
johnlocke said:
I'm also not a fan of GM. Actually, considering what they did to the EV-1 and Tesla's attempts to sell in various states, I am almost religiously opposed to them.
But the Bolt is predominantly an LG product, and I've had decent results with LG. Perhaps a used Bolt is in order? Something to tide you over until used model Y's are available?
cwerdna
Well-known member
^^^
Yep. https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1102176_bolt-ev-powertrain-how-did-gm-and-lg-collaborate-on-design-production lists what LG supplies. The 64% (South) Korean content like on http://gtcarlot.com/data/Chevrolet/Bolt+EV/2019/129795266/Window%20Sticker-135935824.html sounds correct. Not at home right now to check my own window sticker.
I too have numerous reasons for not being a GM fan. When I got my 1st Leaf in 2013, I'd considered a Volt but there were various reasons I passed on Volt. Part of it was wanting to reward Nissan for investing and taking the risk in BEVs and not wanting to reward GM for business practices I'm not at all happy about.
Dealer would look at capacity bars, make sure the firmware is the latest related to capacity reporting and might check for DTCs.
Yep. https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1102176_bolt-ev-powertrain-how-did-gm-and-lg-collaborate-on-design-production lists what LG supplies. The 64% (South) Korean content like on http://gtcarlot.com/data/Chevrolet/Bolt+EV/2019/129795266/Window%20Sticker-135935824.html sounds correct. Not at home right now to check my own window sticker.
I too have numerous reasons for not being a GM fan. When I got my 1st Leaf in 2013, I'd considered a Volt but there were various reasons I passed on Volt. Part of it was wanting to reward Nissan for investing and taking the risk in BEVs and not wanting to reward GM for business practices I'm not at all happy about.
Why would they? What would there be to check when the battery is the thing that's degrading and they go by capacity bars? OBC and motor should be unchanged from '13 to '17 model years.GaleHawkins said:
Dealer would look at capacity bars, make sure the firmware is the latest related to capacity reporting and might check for DTCs.
GaleHawkins
Well-known member
They are the battery's input and output so both may impact SOH over time one day at a time.
GaleHawkins
Well-known member
Any thoughts of why SOH bars would drop from 8/12 to 6/12 in less than 2 weeks?
GaleHawkins said:
A BMS "re-learning" the actual capacity after a reset would do that. Did you have thee BMS "update" from Nissan? That involves a BMS reset. You might get 3 or 4 bars back immediately, but you will then likely lose at least one or two over the next few weeks and months. You could lose all of the ones originally missing.
GaleHawkins
Well-known member
LeftieBiker said:
Nissan Leaf customer service said BMS was reflashed about a year ago. It has been at dealership for two weeks. When they started checking it it was at 8 bars and are concerned there is something else besides the bad battery since it just dropped 2 more bars since they got it into the shop.. They got a new Leaf system recently and my leaf is the first one connected to it. Since they are only 75 miles from the factory they are going to get a factory rep to the shop next week to check out charger, inverter and motor. I told them to use my Leaf so they can get trained on the new diagnostic system. With all of the flooding I am driving the Forester anyway.
outerspaceguy
Active member
FYI: I lost my second bar today. 2017 Leaf. Has just under 15k miles on her. I live in Phoenix area, but she gets parked in a garage overnight and I have covered parking at work. Ive never quickcharged (Chademo) her. I live close to work, so typically I charge 1x-2x per week. In the summertime, I also try to charge only at night if possible.
You're not doing anything wrong. Nissan's quality control and basic pack design are the culprits. The good-ish news is that you will likely get a new pack in a few years. If you are still in your hot locale then, I suggest you sell the car.
OrientExpress
Well-known member
outerspaceguy said:
Did the car have the Phantom Degradation SW bug patch applied?
Feb update. 316 GID's 68.96 AH, SOH=86.76%, Hx=66.33%, 75049 total mi. 30120 mi on new battery. 20 DCFC and 579 l2 charges on the new battery. The battery is continuing to slowly degrade. In the cooler weather, I still lost a GID last month. I'm down about 13% from new. 20 months in, the old battery was down 21%, so the new battery is doing better. The difference is notable and I expect to hit the 100K warranty limit well before the new battery would qualify for replacement. I still expect to be down about 25% at 100K. I expect that as the weather warms up deterioration will accelerate again. I'm looking forward to Tesla's battery day announcements and the reveal of the ID4 at the Chicago Auto Show. Fenix power is still a no-show at this point.
GaleHawkins
Well-known member
johnlocke said:
My OEM 30 kWh lost at the rate of 1% per month over 38 months after being sold new so I think your last battery is holding up much better than my first on. I still have not heard from the dealership other than they did not want to do the swap and thought doing a buy back might be better for Nissan. They finally told me they had never replaced a Leaf battery but had done a few BMS updates.
Thankfully the National Leaf Rep thinks Nissan standing behind their written battery warranty is what should happen so we will see what happens but they have only had my Leaf since 30 Dec 2019. At least last week the National Rep called me and did state they are using the 40 kWh batteries to replace failed 30 kWh batteries so I am wanting them to get moving because I left it expecting a 30. Maybe them dragging their feet was a good thing after all.
The new battery is better than the first one and fact is behaving just about as well as I expected the original to. At the current rate, I expect the new battery to last about 75,000-80,000 miles which is what I was expecting from the original battery. I fully expected the battery to fail under warranty at 70,000-90,000 miles. A replacement battery would get me out to 150,000 miles and I could write off the car at that point. If a new battery was cheap enough, I might replace the battery again or more likely buy a new and improved model. A used Model 3 might also be a possibility. Unfortunately, my first battery crapped out at 45K and the current battery will outlast the remainder of the warranty. If the battery had matched Nissan's goals, I would have had 80% capacity at 100K and could have driven it to 150K easily. Silly me for believing Nissan.GaleHawkins said:
Good luck on the 40 KWH battery. I expect that it will actually go 100,000 miles. Between the larger size and improved manufacturing, it ought to be more much more durable.
