Robert Llewelyn's review of the Leaf after 10 years

He's reportedly waiting on a 40 kWh upgrade pack.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qPF11PmP8k

Thanks for posting.
It took him more than 15 minutes to say what I will say in a couple of sentences: the Leaf is the best car I've ever owned...and I hope to have it another 10 years. I too will be looking for a 40kWh battery pack replacement...and hope that someone local (to Dallas) can do the work by the time I am ready (I am on my second battery pack).

Stanton said:

Thanks for posting.
It took him more than 15 minutes to say what I will say in a couple of sentences: the Leaf is the best car I've ever owned...and I hope to have it another 10 years. I too will be looking for a 40kWh battery pack replacement...and hope that someone local (to Dallas) can do the work by the time I am ready (I am on my second battery pack).

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Spending 15 minutes to get a couple points across (and make sure people remember them) is quite literally his job!

He was lucky that in 10 years, nothing went wrong

I have a 2015.... My problems....

- ABS wheel sensor went and the car would suddenly jolt to a stop.... Not good.
- Driver door chrome handle keeps on popping off... I will soon glue it.. Right now i have a zip tie holding it in place.
- In less than 40K miles original tires wore so badly that the steel belts started coming though...

Otherwise, CAR RUN GOOD!!!

powersurge said:

He was lucky that in 10 years, nothing went wrong

I have a 2015.... My problems....

- ABS wheel sensor went and the car would suddenly jolt to a stop.... Not good.
- Driver door chrome handle keeps on popping off... I will soon glue it.. Right now i have a zip tie holding it in place.
- In less than 40K miles original tires wore so badly that the steel belts started coming though...

Otherwise, CAR RUN GOOD!!!

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That's it? And tires don't count for anything!
But that's not the point I want to make: MY2011/2012 Leafs were built in Japan (not US)...and seem to be of unusually high quality (at least for cars). That's an important message for folks looking for used Leafs.

It seams such a waste to pull out a battery that is at 80% capacity, quite capable of doing your local errands when you already own a Tesla model 3 and an electric Kona for longer trips. I like many others will probably never be able to get hold of a 40 kWh battery and are wondering how they are going to get to work next winter as their batteries may no longer be up to it.

brunohill said:

It seams such a waste to pull out a battery that is at 80% capacity, quite capable of doing your local errands when you already own a Tesla model 3 and an electric Kona for longer trips. I like many others will probably never be able to get hold of a 40 kWh battery and are wondering how they are going to get to work next winter as their batteries may no longer be up to it.

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His battery is likely to be below 60% health at this point. No way the original battery from 2011 is above 80%.

Stanton,

It does not matter how well the 11-12 cars were made because nobody wants them..

Who would buy a 11-12, even in showroom condition for $6-7K? Even at $4500, when you add the $6000 for a new battery, you have already spent $12,000?

Unfortunately the 11-12s will be going to the scrap yard.

powersurge said:

He was lucky that in 10 years, nothing went wrong

I have a 2015.... My problems....

- ABS wheel sensor went and the car would suddenly jolt to a stop.... Not good.
- Driver door chrome handle keeps on popping off... I will soon glue it.. Right now i have a zip tie holding it in place.
- In less than 40K miles original tires wore so badly that the steel belts started coming though...

Otherwise, CAR RUN GOOD!!!

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Ditto.
My new '13's CRAP OEM tires wore out before 20k but did make it past the 12 months where Nissan would have really done anything.
The front end would clunk when turning a particular way, required replacing several parts I was glad was done under warranty.
Both rear hatch shocks were replaced in less than than 1 year under warranty, oil dripping down them oh and also they had to adjust the hatch several times as it required me having to slam the hatch shut to get it to latch.
Like you my drivers door handle pops off, has since a bit past the 3-year warranty! I did glue it, which lasted probably another 3 years, it's now popping off again! All because Nissan cheaped out and used a 5c piece of double-sided tape to hold the handle on, unacceptable IMO.
Doesn't sound like a lot of issues but the last 2 new ICE vehicles I purchased(Toyota's and actually a Geo before that) had NO issues for the first 10 years, save tires that at least lasted 40k, not the total joke of 20k like they put on my Nissan.
Not saying the Leaf is junk or a lemon but again not a trouble-free experience which I'd come to expect from my prior experiences, IMO Nissan seems to be a company that will cheap out whenever they can and likes to play the numbers game, hoping to get past the 3y 36k warranty......

Oh I watched the link and another one where he and another guy discussed their top 10?? EVs and thought it was interesting. Auto mfgs. must like him, he seems to be a very positive guy, quick to point out the positive and doesn't seem to notice or care about too many negatives, nice to see many cars we don't have access to, none the less.

I did not make my post as a complaint of the Leaf as a poor quality car.

I think it is great that my Leaf has cost me ZERO in maintenance and REAL repair costs.

I just found it funny that this car had so many dumb problems that I have never had in any other car.

In 50 years of driving, I have NEVER had to replace a brake sensor or outside door handle. Tires have lasted me 40, but did not self-destruct down to the steel belts.

jjeff said:

My new '13's CRAP OEM tires wore out before 20k but did make it past the 12 months where Nissan would have really done anything.

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This tells us more about how you drive than about the quality of the tires. My 2012 tires were less than half worn out at 20k miles, and my 2014 tires made it past 40k miles.

WetEV said:

jjeff said:

My new '13's CRAP OEM tires wore out before 20k but did make it past the 12 months where Nissan would have really done anything.

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This tells us more about how you drive than about the quality of the tires. My 2012 tires were less than half worn out at 20k miles, and my 2014 tires made it past 40k miles.

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Past experience with commercial vehicles and with the LEAF taught me a few things about this common complaint:
1). Nissan has bad advice in the Owners Manual concerning periodic tire rotations. These tires should be cross-rotated, not directly front-to-rear as stated in the manual.
2). Nissan has bad advice in the Owners Manual concerning tire inflation. These are relatively heavy cars for the tire spec. so inflation should be marginally higher than recommended to compensate for the extra weight. I run mine no less the 40 psi. If not, the shoulders will wear excessively as if under inflated. Keep in mind, the same tire spec was factory on a Honda Civic that I owned that was 800 lbs lighter curb weight.
3). Both my '14 and current '19 LEAF had alignment checks at the 1st annual battery check. Both required significant adjustments, which is quite common after normal early break-in wear on any vehicle.
4). Electric vehicles put down a lot of torque and the low center of gravity makes it easy to aggressively push through a curve. Thus driving habits play a huge role in tire durability.

With that context... The original (so-called crappy) Bridgestones on my '14 were replaced at 40K miles. At the time, they has sufficient tire tread to handle for both dry & wet roads, but questionable for Winter and would likely need replaced at lease-end (45K miles). So made the decision to replace them before end-of-life the Fall before to get some use before returning the car. If I had a 36K mile lease, there is no doubt the car could have been returned on the original tires.

rogersleaf said:

1). Nissan has bad advice in the Owners Manual concerning periodic tire rotations. These tires should be cross-rotated, not directly front-to-rear as stated in the manual.

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Err... why? I did front to rear. What would I see different if cross rotated?

For the first 10k of my 20k Ecopia's I ran 40PSI, after I noticed them wearing quite a bit on the front corners(10k?) I maxed out the pressure to 44PSI. As far as rotation, on a proper car, at least all the ones I've owned before the Leaf, one shouldn't even need to worry about the tires needing rotation in the first 10k, let alone the tire wearing out to be bald by 20k. When I purchased replacements I had the vehicle aligned(which I asked Nissan to do but was told it wasn't covered under warranty!) they said the car was "a bit" out of alignment. I did end up purchasing Ecopia's for the replacements but they were the + models and so far have lasted more than 20k and still look pretty decent, I should probably swap the fronts with the rears are the rears have noticeably more wear left.
Purchasing a new car and having it come from the factory out of alignment only adds to my feeling Nissan likes to cut corners and no, the car had never been in an accident or ever hit a curb or large pothole, my feeling is it was never aligned or not even checked at the factory. I also am a pretty conservative driver, never really had issues with other tires on other cars.
I'm also not saying the Leaf is a poor quality car, it just seems to me Nissan cheaped out on some things they shouldn't have, for the most part I'm happy with the Leaf and at the time had no other real choice for an EV, still not much better for choice in a non CAFE state but I've heard rumblings MN might actually join CA but I'll believe it when I see it.....

WetEV said:

rogersleaf said:

1). Nissan has bad advice in the Owners Manual concerning periodic tire rotations. These tires should be cross-rotated, not directly front-to-rear as stated in the manual.

Click to expand...

Err... why? I did front to rear. What would I see different if cross rotated?

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I do a forward cross for all FWD vehicles, unless the car is fitted with unidirectional tires. It is the way my father taught me, and the way his father taught him. I believe my great-grandfather cross-rotated the shoes on his cart horse in the same way.

Yes, proper rotation is front tires cross to opposite rear and rears move to same side front....

Why would a manufacturer list a "wrong" tire rotation sequence? What's the upside for them to do so?

powersurge said:

Yes, proper rotation is front tires cross to opposite rear and rears move to same side front....

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I did front to rear. What would I see different if cross rotated?

I really have to second Robert's findings. I've been driving LEAF since late 2011, and other than the early battery fiasco I have to say the cars have been remarkably reliable. 2012 did lose a battery bar just before I turned in the lease. The battery in the 2015 was significantly improved; I bought out the lease and still driving it. I have had no need of dealer repairs other than an early pulling problem with the 2012 that the dealership could not resolve anyway, which I remedied by rotating the tires and increasing PSI. The only downside to the car is the 24kWH battery is obsolete by today's standards. I'd also consider a battery transplant at some point to be a worthwhile pursuit thanks to the reliability of the car.

WetEV said:

powersurge said:

Yes, proper rotation is front tires cross to opposite rear and rears move to same side front....

Click to expand...

I did front to rear. What would I see different if cross rotated?

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My understanding is that cross rotating tires will roll in opposite direction then, and the wear on the tires will be more equal.