California, allies ready for emission-law war with Trump EPA, CARB head says

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Could be, although as the topic is California-specific that seemed unlikely.

What CARB started effective this past Jan. 1st was requiring all semis built in 2000 or earlier to be replaced by 2011 or newer models, or be re-engined with 2010 or newer spec engines. The truck year of manufacture for replacement goes up to 2005 next Jan. 1st, then 2007 a year later, then 2010 a year after that.
 
There's plenty of 10, 20 and even some nearly 30 year old feed hauling trucks around here.
10 years old is practically brand new, depending on how many crashes it's been in.
 
For anyone who's interested, there's an LA Times article titled "Port ships are becoming LA's biggest polluters". Big trucks are still ahead at the moment, but ships are projected to overtake them by 2023. There's a graph showing the top ten projected sources then - cars are projected to be down at #7. The article doesn't say where they rank now, but it's probably about the same.

BTW, as the starter of this topic, could we move the Covid-19 arguments/rants to that topic? Thanks.
 
At this point, emissions is unimportant and irrelevant.

The country is closed, and we need to start the normalcy before we have a severe depression.

If it means lots more gas used to increase transportation of goods, driving to work, and make manufacturing 10x what it is in this country, then so be it.

Anyone who is still focused on emissions is really misguided in this disaster of our current government policy.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Posts moved. Please post in the relevant topic, where your posts are now located. Let's also try to keep it civil.

Everything I have read is civil. There may be differences of opinions.

The civility is in allowing all to express themselves and their ideas. Just because someone thinks something is BS is not being "uncivil".

What is uncivil is people trying to knock down different opinions and dissent from the party line.
 
powersurge said:
At this point, emissions is unimportant and irrelevant.

The country is closed, and we need to start the normalcy before we have a severe depression.

We had a choice between a mass casualty event and a severe economic contraction. The virus is still here. The governors largely decided against a mass casualty event. Do I hear you saying that a mass casualty event is preferred?

powersurge said:
If it means lots more gas used to increase transportation of goods, driving to work, and make manufacturing 10x what it is in this country, then so be it.

Anyone who is still focused on emissions is really misguided in this disaster of our current government policy.

Air pollution still kills people.
 
powersurge said:
At this point, emissions is unimportant and irrelevant.

The country is closed, and we need to start the normalcy before we have a severe depression.

If it means lots more gas used to increase transportation of goods, driving to work, and make manufacturing 10x what it is in this country, then so be it.

Anyone who is still focused on emissions is really misguided in this disaster of our current government policy.

I think it's important. Now for the first time in decades we are seeing the effects of turning a large portion of the gas burner cars off and leaving them off in places with the worst air pollution in the nation.

China virus deaths are going to go away after a year or 2 because of technology and just running out of new people to infect, air pollution isn't going away anytime soon.

According to IEA gasoline production is normally at around 10 million barrels per day and climbing this time of year, now it's at 6 million barrels and falling. Same for inventories, normally this time of year inventory is falling, but it's at least on a 5 year high. Gasoline production is going to be slashed when all the storage tanks fill up if demand is still down.

Diesel production has been hit too, but nothing like gasoline. Diesel production normally dips during the summer this is just a much stronger dip than usual. Inventories remain in the normal range.
So the diesel powered sectors of the economy have slowed a little but still chugging along.
So the argument that the air is cleaner because buses, trucks and trains have all stopped just like cars is a fantasy.
(Powersurge, you didn't claim that, it was someone else, not directed at you)
 
Presumably directed at me, but as my claims were based on data recorded by various govt. agencies whose job it is to monitor both the amount and sources of pollution, you should argue with them if you disagree.

Unfortunately, using my phone makes citing/linking to these sources tedious, but Google searches for things like California pollution sources, covid-19 effects on air quality etc. will bring up numerous articles.
 
Gasoline production is down about 40% and storage is filling up fast. So it's safe to say gasoline consumption has just about been cut in half.

Diesel, fuel oil, jet fuel production is down maybe 20 to 25%, normally production is decreasing this time of year and inventory is usually increasing but inventory is still in the normal range.
It would appear that the lack of jet fuel sales and the implosion of air travel can account most of that sales reduction.

Spring harvest of animal feed is in full swing here, so crops aren't being left in the field to rot, yet.
 
Feed crop harvesting is very automated - you only need a combine, a driver for it, a truck, and a driver for that. Even half a dozen people, all in separate vehicles, aren't a problem. Harvesting vegetable crops is very labor intensive.
 
Yeah I know I own a tractor, have fruit trees and know how labor intense fruit and vegetable harvests are and have my field harvested for hay most years.
That's why a good portion of my wild fruit trees fruit goes to the deer.
 
Oilpan4 said:
Gasoline production is down about 40% and storage is filling up fast. So it's safe to say gasoline consumption has just about been cut in half.

Diesel, fuel oil, jet fuel production is down maybe 20 to 25%, normally production is decreasing this time of year and inventory is usually increasing but inventory is still in the normal range.
It would appear that the lack of jet fuel sales and the implosion of air travel can account most of that sales reduction.


Yet Caltrans reported a 1/3rd reduction in heavy truck VMT just in LA county (for March I believe) of 1/3rd, from 1.8 down to 1.2 million miles. Do you think that has no effect on air quality, especially given the amount of PM 2.5 big diesels emit?
 
Oilpan4 said:
Every little bit helps.


1/3rd of the most polluting VMT is hardly "a little bit". Passenger car VMT is down about 50% (as much as 70% in the first two weeks), but as cars in California pollute far less than big diesels, esp. PM 2.5, the air quality effect of the reduced truck/train VMT plus ships is greater.
 
For some info on U.S. VMT reductions in various regions, see the GCC article whose title starts "US Covid-19 mitigation efforts resulting in significant decline in traffic, emissions . . ."
 
See California could have this all the time if they pushed way more electric vehicles and pollution exportation.
 
Oilpan4 said:
See California could have this all the time if they pushed way more electric vehicles and pollution exportation.


So your answer is that we should dump the local air pollution problem on someone else, rather than fixing it at the source? That's pretty much what the developed world has been doing for decades, by outsourcing most of our dirtiest jobs to poorer countries with limited environmental laws and enforcement. No, thanks.

We've been ending out of state contracts for coal for well over a decade, and prohibited new plants here while phasing out existing ones even longer. NG will go next, as we develop affordable storage for our ever increasing VR. The major IOUs are already required to have substantial amounts of storage, enough in some cases to handle the evening peak, although seasonal storage remains too expensive for now.

ZEV adoption rate remains constrained by the same three factors (price/range/charging) as have applied for the past decade, although those are slowly improving, and the state continues to provide subsidies and perks But the drop in people's incomes due to Covid-19 will slow the transition for at least a couple of years, IMO.
 
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