2019 "60 kWh" Leaf e-Plus

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The most interesting part was at the end of the article:

However, the NCM 811 battery cells from AESC arrive this year. With 32 % more volumetric energy density than the current NCM 523 battery cells, Nissan could make a new 82 kWh battery pack with the same size. Considering that a good TMS takes some space in the battery pack, a 75 kWh NCM 811 battery with liquid cooling would be reasonable…

I hope that the Nissan LEAF is going to get a completely new battery pack this year with NCM 811 battery cells and liquid cooling. Electric cars without long-lasting battery packs aren’t environmentally friendly products.
 
So was thinking about it as I was driving around today (24F just seat and wheel heater on average 3.7-4.1 miles/kW).

In my 13 Leaf, I could do a gentle 100 miles (121 was my max drive in year 3 of the car) on a charge, which is 20% over EPA.

If I took 20% over the 216 EPA on my 2019 Leaf Plus that would be 258 miles. I personally believe the efficiency on the epa scale is accurate to one digit on the kilowatts per 100 miles, so the 215 could be more like 220 miles. That would put the 120% at 264 which is about What I was seeing at a managed highway speed, similar to the speed to achieve 100 miles in the 2013 Leaf.

So I guess I should not have been surprised at the higher range. For those with the SR+, can you achieve 20% above epa on the highway when driving carefully? So 300 miles to empty? Just curious if the same multiple applies.

Even with the 20% it looks like Niro/Kona does a better job yet efficiency and range wise.
 
Hey Doug,

Can you remind me what the fast charging curve is on your Leaf Plus when you QC at a 100 kW EA charger? I know you've mentioned somewhere else on MNL that it charges at over 70 kW for part of the time, but I can't remember any more specifics, and I've been looking for data on this elsewhere, but I haven't found any. For example, Fastned's graph of the e-Plus' charging curve in Europe is on a 50 kW charger. Anyway, I'm specifically wondering between which SOC's the Leaf Plus QC's at above 70 kW (10% - 50%?) and whether this changes at all in winter vs. summer. Any insight you can provide would be appreciated, thanks.
 
On the EA charger near my home, (which I have really charged with just for curiosity, as home charging is a bit cheaper). I generally peak'ed at 74-76kWr

The percentages reported are from the dash, not leafspy.
75kW to about 20% (this is about 27-28 SOC in LS)
72kW at 28%
67kW at 35%
65kW at 40%
60kW at 43%
58kW at 45%
56kW at 48%
55kW at 50% (Maybe 55-56% LS)

Beyond 50%, unless you are going cross country, your return for your minute of charging investment continues to go down. If you really wanted to maximize your ROI on EA charging (if you don't have home charging), I would run the car between 5 and 35%. It would only take 15 minutes, and you are on your way with essentially a Gen 1 Leaf range.
 
Kieran973 said:
Hey Doug,

Can you remind me what the fast charging curve is on your Leaf Plus when you QC at a 100 kW EA charger? I know you've mentioned somewhere else on MNL that it charges at over 70 kW for part of the time, but I can't remember any more specifics, and I've been looking for data on this elsewhere, but I haven't found any. For example, Fastned's graph of the e-Plus' charging curve in Europe is on a 50 kW charger. Anyway, I'm specifically wondering between which SOC's the Leaf Plus QC's at above 70 kW (10% - 50%?) and whether this changes at all in winter vs. summer. Any insight you can provide would be appreciated, thanks.
Click to expand...

here is a video I documented the charge rate with a start of 73 kW tapering at the end. Note: I did have a little battery temp rise...despite my poor comments in the video...you can see that here:

https://youtu.be/hwQ-oprZGCE
 
I wonder what is holding Nissan back from some kind of pre-conditioning on Navigate like Tesla does. So if you set a fast charger as destination the car would pre-condition the battery for max energy transference. With my wife’s model 3 we have only supercharged at V2 Superchargers so max 150 KW. But we learned on our first couple road trips the difference between arriving at a Supercharger pre-conditioned and not. Essentially you have to navigate to a supercharger and then you get a notice that it is preconditioning. The difference was stunning. Arriving around 25-30 percent the charge went right to max for a V2 Supercharger at 150 KW. Not pre-conditioned it started around 90 ish kw. It was around plus 3-5 Celsius both times so comparable conditions.

I know Nissan has battery heaters. Could they not do something like this with software?

Heads up. I suck at this stuff so NOT AN EXPERT. :).
 
I know Nissan has battery heaters. Could they not do something like this with software?
Click to expand...

The battery warmers on the Gen 1 and 1.5 Leaf draw 300 watts total. AFAIK they didn't make them more powerful for Gen 2, so you are talking about just a small fraction of what would be needed for the kind of preconditioning you describe.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
On the EA charger near my home, (which I have really charged with just for curiosity, as home charging is a bit cheaper). I generally peak'ed at 74-76kWr

The percentages reported are from the dash, not leafspy.
75kW to about 20% (this is about 27-28 SOC in LS)
72kW at 28%
67kW at 35%
65kW at 40%
60kW at 43%
58kW at 45%
56kW at 48%
55kW at 50% (Maybe 55-56% LS)

Beyond 50%, unless you are going cross country, your return for your minute of charging investment continues to go down. If you really wanted to maximize your ROI on EA charging (if you don't have home charging), I would run the car between 5 and 35%. It would only take 15 minutes, and you are on your way with essentially a Gen 1 Leaf range.
Click to expand...

Your ramp down is EXTREME!

I don't have time to look at my logs but I didn't see a drop from 200 amps until SOC was around 45-50%

Another thing; your statement you saw 75 KW at 20% SOC needs to be verified. AFAIK, EA max'es at 200 amps which means no more than 72-73 KW at that low a voltage.


On another note; someone claimed that only 5% of EA locations Chademo's charge over 125 amps ( 50 KW in layman's terms)

Have you seen a station that did not charge faster than 50 KW on your Plus anywhere?
 
The Target in Glenview IL, is listed as a 50KW charger for both Chademo and CCS. I only peaked in the mid to upper 40s on that station.
Guessing it’s a gen 1 dcfc station.

I what I posted was just one ramp down cycle. There were other cars charging at the time, so I wouldn’t take it is the absolute cycle. As the EA stations are not free (like almost all of the other Chademos in the area), I only charge there as a kind of science experiment.
 
Thanks, all. That's helpful. So then just anecdotally, based on only Doug and Learjet's experiences, it would seem the Leaf Plus charges at above 70 kW on 200 amp EA stations until about 30% SOC if other people are charging at the same time as you, but until about 42% if you're charging alone. Dave, that's a good question about the percentage of EA Chademo chargers where Leaf Pluses can actually charge at around 70 kW. Does anyone know? I was under the impression that it was most if not all - I thought they were mostly all rated for 100 kW, even though they're labeled as 50 kW??
 
Ramp down is not dependent on other people charging. Its battery temps more than anything.

One attempt; batt temps (start of charge) 65.1/67.3/69.1

knee; 44.3% SOC 199.708 amps/369.213 (73.7 KW)

50% SOC; 181.135 amps /373.34 volts (67.6 KW)

55% SOC; 175.422/376.49 (66 KW)

60% SOC; 155.867/378.65 (59 KW)

65% SOC; 138.83/380.99 (52.9 KW)

70 % SOC; 120.299/384.24 (46.2 KW)

FYI; Only twice in nearly 100 DC sessions have I hit 70% SOC at 120 amps on the Slower DC's.

Of note; Some may recall my "cold weather challenge" charging against a Bolt which happened on the same day. On that test starting batt temps were mid 40's and starting current was still 200 amps but ramp down started at 39% SOC and by the time I was at 60% SOC, I was under 120 amps. This was the same EA station as the above session.

In case you are wondering; The max temp on first DC was 95.2º F. I charged 22+ minutes receiving 24.2 Kwh averaging 65KW for the session.

This isn't a surprise; My 40 kwh acted the same way when pack was cold.

You probably already guessed this; Since I am such a cheapskate, this is the only two examples charging on EA below 195 amps. I generally charge until the knee then unplug. This is how I averaged under 17 cents/kwh.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
Ramp down is not dependent on other people charging. Its battery temps more than anything.

One attempt; batt temps (start of charge) 65.1/67.3/69.1

knee; 44.3% SOC 199.708 amps/369.213 (73.7 KW)

50% SOC; 181.135 amps /373.34 volts (67.6 KW)

55% SOC; 175.422/376.49 (66 KW)

60% SOC; 155.867/378.65 (59 KW)

65% SOC; 138.83/380.99 (52.9 KW)

70 % SOC; 120.299/384.24 (46.2 KW)

FYI; Only twice in nearly 100 DC sessions have I hit 70% SOC at 120 amps on the Slower DC's.

Of note; Some may recall my "cold weather challenge" charging against a Bolt which happened on the same day. On that test starting batt temps were mid 40's and starting current was still 200 amps but ramp down started at 39% SOC and by the time I was at 60% SOC, I was under 120 amps. This was the same EA station as the above session.

In case you are wondering; The max temp on first DC was 95.2º F. I charged 22+ minutes receiving 24.2 Kwh averaging 65KW for the session.

This isn't a surprise; My 40 kwh acted the same way when pack was cold.

You probably already guessed this; Since I am such a cheapskate, this is the only two examples charging on EA below 195 amps. I generally charge until the knee then unplug. This is how I averaged under 17 cents/kwh.
Click to expand...

Cool info Dave. Thanks for posting.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
DougWantsALeaf said:
Dave,

Were your SOC's dash or LeafSpy? I assume Leafspy.
Click to expand...

Dash?.... What is "dash?"

Your question is like "Should I rely on trump or Fauci for COVID advice?"
Click to expand...

You could just tell him whether the SOC reading was from the dashboard display or from LeafSpy. The dash doesn't seem especially inaccurate except at the very top and very bottom of the range.
 
LeftieBiker said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
DougWantsALeaf said:
Dave,

Were your SOC's dash or LeafSpy? I assume Leafspy.
Click to expand...

Dash?.... What is "dash?"

Your question is like "Should I rely on trump or Fauci for COVID advice?"
Click to expand...

You could just tell him whether the SOC reading was from the dashboard display or from LeafSpy. The dash doesn't seem especially inaccurate except at the very top and very bottom of the range.
Click to expand...

Yeah ALL the info was taken directly from LEAF Spy logs. I don't have the patience to sit there and watch the car charge.
 
I thought Tom’s note in this article was humorous that he wish he’d he had a consumption based GOM, instead of just a static one (aka like the other EVs) in the dislikes.

https://insideevs.com/features/419400/telsa-model-3-likes-and-dislikes/
 
Ok,

Here is my latest thought on the quarterly adjustments. Safe Harbor warning, no science or methodology sits behinds this hypothesis.

My guess is that Nissan is quarterly tuning the amount of buffer, and with it bringing down the SoH reported to reduce the speed of degradation of the battery. In doing so, the battery post tuning is under reporting true remaining SoH. Then as the battery ages, if the battery underneath stays flatter, it can give back a little of the capacity in line with their internal model. In this way, it can help de-risk its potential battery replacements (under the 8 year / 70% warranty...same as Tesla) as well as help consumers maintain the best battery possible given their usage habits. Almost like how Tesla will throttle back supercharing on cars if its done too much to protect the brand, this is Nissan's way of doing it.

All anecdotal. We are coming up on the 1 year anniversary of our car, and it is doing well. Battery is at 95.67% and I should know in a few days if that is pre or post the last adjustment.
 

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