Fenix Power: A new third party battery replacement?

[powersurge]

The difference between taking deposits for a product you will never deliver, and taking deposits for a product you later find you can not deliver is mostly a question of how well grounded you were in reality from the start. The result is the same.

Disagree. The former is fraud, the latter is either inadequate planning or unforeseen issues (coronovirus anyone?).

You are being tremendously naive... Do you believe that people are honest? That if a ton of people have sent you checks on a business venture, that you will send money back to them? You are also covering for them by faulting the Corona Virus?

Please doe not be so gullible.

[SalisburySam]

The difference between taking deposits for a product you will never deliver, and taking deposits for a product you later find you can not deliver is mostly a question of how well grounded you were in reality from the start. The result is the same.

Disagree. The former is fraud, the latter is either inadequate planning or unforeseen issues (coronovirus anyone?).

You are being tremendously naive... Do you believe that people are honest? That if a ton of people have sent you checks on a business venture, that you will send money back to them? You are also covering for them by faulting the Corona Virus?

Please doe not be so gullible.

Nope, not at all. Please re-read what I wrote, especially the 4 words after "Disagree." Fraud is fraud whether you "fell" for it or not. And speaking of a bunch of folks sending money on a business venture, that's how the 2011 and most 2012 LEAFs were purchased: by a $99 deposit sent in almost two years before the product went live. Similarly, the first Tesla Model 3's had deposits two or more years before the product. Yeah, people can be crooked but that's a take-the-money-and-run situation. Fenix hasn't evaporated, though maybe they will, neither of us knows for sure.

[jlv]

The difference between taking deposits for a product you will never deliver, and taking deposits for a product you later find you can not deliver is mostly a question of how well grounded you were in reality from the start. The result is the same.

Disagree. The former is fraud, the latter is either inadequate planning or unforeseen issues (coronovirus anyone?).

One thing I've learned in my 30+ years in tech is that there there are several types of people who tend to start companies. Two of the types are visionaries and creators. A creator tends to build something, and then start a company around that creation. These companies tend to start small and grow organically. A visionary tends to have an idea, and then start a company to make that idea reality. These companies tend to start with a big bang (investor cash). Important to making the company a success is for the visionary to hire people who actually know how to create something, otherwise you just get noise.

I've worked for companies started by both types of people. The current place I work at is a tech company nearing 40 years old, and was started by a creator (who eventually became a visionary as the company matured). He still runs the company (and it's still intentionally private). Other successful companies started by creators are places like Cisco. Apple's two founders were one of each.

I worked for a telecom maker that was founded by a visionary who knew to hire the right creators to make the initial product. They eventually sold the company to Cisco for $1B. I worked for another telecom maker that was founded by a creator. Based upon a very good early prototype they got some initial market traction, but had more work to do. The founder decided early on to turn into a visionary. He had lots of ideas, raised almost $300M from investors, started a dozen new products and hired some 400 people. No one knew what they were doing, and the initial product never really became production ready. In the span of 12 months they redesigned the company logo and colors twice, however.

Fenix looks like a company started by a visionary who had no idea how to turn the vision into product. There's been no evidence that they ever hired people who could actually fulfill that vision. Was it a fraud? I don't think so. Was it likely to succeed based upon how they initially proceeded? I don't think so.

But they have a cool new company color scheme: Vermilion! https://fenix.systems/news/2020/03/19/w ... -vermilion

[Dooglas]

The difference between taking deposits for a product you will never deliver, and taking deposits for a product you later find you can not deliver is mostly a question of how well grounded you were in reality from the start. The result is the same.

Disagree. The former is fraud, the latter is either inadequate planning or unforeseen issues (coronovirus anyone?).

The corona virus had nothing to do with the inability of Fenix Power to deliver on its commitments. It made promises for a product it has been unable to develop - at least at a marketable cost.

[cwerdna]

^^^
Agreed.

Funny enough, a COVID-19 related blog entry went up: https://fenix.systems/news/2020/03/30/covid-19. From my skimming of it, it's still a lot of talk and nothing tangible for their customers.

[solarman]

A few weeks ago, I got on the Fenix Power mailing list, but resisted putting a deposit down until I learned more about Fenix. I was hoping this could be an option for me to increase the range on my 2011 Nissan LEAF (45k miles, 8 bars, ~50 miles range today). However, everything I've read and seen about this company has not inspired much confidence. Their business model has changed from initially offering a battery replacement for LEAF owners, to promising a new battery pack with thermal management and slower degradation, to offering battery "as a service" (lease) and now talking about building stationary storage systems. But all of this depends on the company finding partners to produce the hardware. In their newsletter there's no news about their progress or how soon they might have a product available. The news is about the redesign of their web site, or how the company wants to "focus on people" , including girls. What ?!? There is way too much bashing of auto manufacturers for not supporting their customers, this coming from a company with zero experience and no track record of customer service. It's time to take the Fenix bait hook out of my mouth and move on... I sincerely hope those of you who have put a deposit down can get your money back.

[LarryKaplan]

I am going to be an optimist and hope they come through. I placed a deposit -- even if it's not refunded if they crash and burn, it's not very much money. I have participated in numerous crowdfunding efforts in the luxury watch industry and know there is some risk -- and I have not been disappointed to date (most have eventually come through, albeit with delayed timetables; one did not and I got my money back).

If they don't come through, I suppose I will be looking at buying a battery from Nissan, but boy they are expensive. However, Nissan will actually finance the cost (I've been quoted from $4500 to $6K). There are other aftermarket installers out there and I know they are actually doing replacement installations, but they are all local, ranging from Washington State to the Netherlands. They don't help me much here in Southern CA.

There is a supplier selling used batteries here in Southern CA, but you have to either install it yourself or find a mechanic that you need to supervise like a project manager because they won't provide any support -- sorry, even though my dad was an auto mechanic and I know how to do an oil change, DIY nor project managing someone else is not my thing. I want to be able to drive in, leave the car, pick it up and pay. Finally, they only guarantee them up to 70% SOH, which would buy me another 10 miles of range that would not be worth the time or money (about $2K plus shipping and whatever you pay to get it installed; no core credit).

Of course, right now, my car is sitting in my garage, and I don't foresee putting much mileage on it for weeks, if not another month or so! Be well and stay safe everyone.

[powersurge]

Here is a recent hour-long video on Youtube..

I will not comment on this, but let you interpret it yourself..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sdXa0TKWxs&t=195s

[LeftieBiker]

Is there any reason this needs a new topic?

[cwerdna]

^^^
Agree. Also, is powersurge pointing out that specific time index and the question there or the whole video that's over an hour long?